The Legacy/Influence of Chris Crawford, Interactive Storytelling and Process Focused Game Design Applied to Parser Games

I’ve recently watched a few different lectures given by Chris Crawford and have found his design philosophy to be very inspiring. For those unfamiliar Crawford is a game designer focused on Process driven Interactive games, which he uses those two terms in specific ways. When it comes to these two concepts I feel parser based IF has a few elements which could lend itself to this design philosophy.

With the parser, even though Crawford himself has expressed doubt (timestamp 7:25) at the ability to use keyboard input in game design, I do feel there is a way for the parser to offer a unique level of interactivity to game design that is also process oriented. While expressing these doubts Crawford himself admits that the keyboard is the most expressive way for the player to interact, especially since with the parser we can tap into the player’s preexisting knowledge of natural language. The verb focus of a parser also lends itself to process oriented game design since verbs themselves are processes. I also believe that parser games (especially text focused parser games) have an easier time increasing the actually accessible states of the game by being able to include more verbs more easily (as compared to graphics based games which then need to implement visual representations of different state changes; for example it is much easier to write in text how fire propagates rather then modeling fire propagation in a 3d environment with particle effects, animations etc). The problem with a parser however is that the parser intrinsically creates a huge amount of imaginable states (see previous video) and so extra care has to be taken to create the context of the game and to align the imaginable states of the player with the accessible states of the game. And all of this ultimately ties back to the idea of listening as we are able to use an intuitive language of listening (natural language), and we are able to more easily listen to more of what the player would like to do (creating more accessible states).

I am only really familiar with Inform 7 so for this section I will be focusing on I7 entirely but this may well be applicable to other languages, I just don’t have the knowledge to say so. When it comes to I7 I feel that there is a similarity to languages such as Prolog (Timestamp 19:50) primarily in the logical programming paradigm such as through the use of relations, facts and rules, (for example in I7 the code Every person has nose.) which lend itself both to process based design and to thinking. In this case I don’t think I7 has a necessary advantage, but instead it offers a unique approach. Crawford has previously used classic adventure games as an example of poor game design(timestamp 31:58), primarily pointing to their reliance on boolean states. However this form of design is avoidable. I feel this logical approach allows for an author to more easily design a complex state with rules (processes) by which to change it. Just as the verb approach of the parser aids with Listening, the rules of each verb literally Carry out the Thinking of interactivity.

Here is a tiny example
"Example 1"

Laboratory is a room.

A nose is a kind of thing.
A nose is part of every person.
A nose has a number called usability.
The usability of a nose is usually 100.

Carry out an actor attacking someone(called the target):
	say "[The actor] punches [the target]";
	decrease the usability of a random nose that is part of the target by 5.

Without creating any specifics of the game we have created processes by which the initial state of the game is created (giving everyone a nose) and rules by which that state can change (attacking people decreases the usability of their nose(and this is represented in a non-boolean fashion you could go further in creating equations to calculate the amount by which the usability of a nose is decreased by)). This example by itself is nothing too interesting but it shows this design philosophy of creating rules for interactivity rather than creating specific interactions, as well as interactivity which is non-boolean (as it’s not just a matter of if one has a nose but what state that nose is in).

Finally when it comes to the Speaking aspect of interactivity I think text based games have a huge advantage because text is a much cheaper medium than most other forms of speech. This not only allows for more people to be able to start making games and interactive stories, but it also means that projects which would be impossible if done graphically become possible (Dwarf fortress which while still somewhat graphical is a great example of this). Text also allows for the author to better utilize negative space, to allow the player to use their imagination to fill in the gaps left by text which can be harder to do in visual representations.

I would be really interested to hear what other people think of this design philosophy. As I have mentioned elsewhere in the forums I’m not very well versed in traditional IF games, and I’ve never played a classic adventure game. Instead I’ve been brought to IF primarily from Twine and Ren’Py AIF games which I felt were doing really interesting things when it came to interactivity and emergent storytelling especially within languages that people often view as more constrained/linear. So if anyone has examples of parser games which have similar design philosophies which I’m not aware of I would love to check them out. I unfortunately haven’t been able to play Crawford’s Gossip but I especially thought his approach to character driven games, using this interactive and process focused design especially peaked my interest in this design philosophy. One similar game project I am aware of which relates to IF (I don’t recall if it was a parser game or not) was the Versu project which I’ve heard a couple lectures from Emily Short about. Unfortunately however the games (the main one being blood and laurels) are no longer available.

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Versu was not parser-based. It was choice-based, but the available choices were selected from a large library according to a bunch of salience criteria.

I think the general take on Crawford is that he gets sidetracked by details and does not see what people are actually doing in the IF world. The whole obsession with “boolean states” never really made any sense.

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Having listened to some of these videos, I feel that assessing a game in terms of its global variables seems a little reductive. It sounds like something from an 80s game magazine:

1000 points! Over 50 global variables!

Does he mention games that he likes?

To me the parser both benefits and suffers from the limitless variability of language. Even though it isn’t so, a good parser game can make the player feel that anything is possible.

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I can agree with this. Two of my favorite games are the first and second Monkey Island graphic adventures. Those contained an enormous amount of text dialogue and choices via the sentence-building interface. When adventure games went “talkie” with the advent of CDs and the space to store voice-acting the dialog text volume went way down, and despite being well-acted, lost a bit of the special comic timing and detail that was possible with text balloons.

I even turned off the voice acting in Ron Gilbert’s recent SCUMM style Thimbleweed Park to replicate this and it got very close. But it still seemed in the early SCUMM they were freed because text is “cheap” and takes up little space - but great text can get so much story and character across with the smallest amount of resources.

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The only game I recall him mentioning liking is I believe called Battle for Britain, which was a flight simulator/dogfighting simulator, I think he mentions this in the video called the Mystique of the Loop but I could be misremembering. Even with this game though he still picks it apart quite a lot. The main thing I remember him sharing about liking this game and flight simulators broadly was that they typically had a narrow window of imaginable states and reachable states, in that the simulation created expectations which were met. Other than that I feel I mostly hear him discussing his own games such as Gossip, Balance of the Planet and Siboot.

And yeah I completely agree about the parser, the important part is just managing player expectations through the games context to create that harmony between the players imagined states (what the player wants to type into the parser) and the available states (the inputs understood by the parser).

Since you mentioned Prolog, maybe you’d be interested in Dialog? It’s a language that’s been inspired by Prolog, so it goes a bit further in the “logic programming” paradigm that Inform 7 (which is also a source of inspiration for Dialog).

I don’t really know about Crawford, but maybe Dialog is more in line with his way of thinking.

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Interesting, yeah I’ll definitely have to look more into Dialogue. As for Crawford he seems a bit more interested in creating his own languages, storytron was his big language project iirc.

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Did you have a chance to play Le Morte D’Arthur, the game that Crawford released a month ago? I found it to be a mixed experience, as it was both underwhelming and brilliant at the same time. The writing was excellent and exceeded my expectations, and the complex social dilemmas presented in the game were more engaging than I had anticipated.

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I haven’t had a chance to play it, but thanks for letting me know it’s out, I hadn’t seen anything about it being out. I’ll have to try and play it when I get a chance and will return here to add my thoughts, but from what I’ve heard him discuss about his ideas for the game your summation definitely aligns with what I’d think the game would be like.

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I look forward to hearing your opinion, but it’s quite a long game so please don’t rush it!
The writing and the dilemmas probably make it the best choice-based game I have played, but I don’t see why he couldn’t just have made the game in, for example, Twine. And that seems a bit ironic as he went on a 30-year-long quest to develop his own Storytron engine. Still, I am really glad he finished his game and I will play it again to experience it more fully and, hopefully, get a better ending. I think I see quite clearly what moral and themes Crawford is going for even though it can be quite maddening to try to align yourself with that moral with the choices you are offered.

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I haven’t played through the game yet but I poked around the first few turns and then looked at the code.

The code is very simplistic, less complex than Twine or Choicescript. It seems that for each block of code he lists out what appears on the page, lists out the options to click, and lists out how much the four stats he uses change for that option. It seems somewhat inflexible, as he has to pad out encounters with few choices to have a bunch of blank ‘unused option’ choices, and he has to manually put in 0’s for the change in stats for most pages.

There is also a randomizer that will under certain conditions take you to a feedback passage based on how high your stats are before sending you back to the game. That’s the only part that can’t automatically be done by basic Twine or choicescript, but wouldn’t be hard to code in.

So it seems like this game would mostly stand or fall on its storyline, as its not doing much work technically. I feel like he would have benefitted a lot by trying out some current Twine and Choicescript games, as they’ve made marvelous advances in tricks people can pull off.

The blurb on the game page says:

It’s not a game. It’s not interactive fiction. It’s not a puzzle. It’s not action-packed. It’s not fun. If you’re a gamer, you’ll hate it and should not play it. It’s not interactive fiction. If you like interactive fiction, you probably won’t like it. The reason such people should not play Le Morte D’Arthur is that it violates all the norms of these firmly established genres.

It’s not standard “King Arthur” material. There are no knights in shining armor, no dragons, no castles, and no damsels in distress. The characters speak in normal American English, not Hollywood medieval English.

But I’m not sure that’s true. It seems like completely normal interactive fiction, the kind you’d see on a hundred WIP threads on itch and CoG. And from what I’ve looked at the text, it seems to be a completely straightforward interpretation of King Arthur. Text like:

Who does Mordred think he is? That’s Kaye’s man, subject to Kaye’s command. Mordred cannot simply take people away from other kinglets!

seems pretty normal.

I like most Twine and choicescript games, and I like King Arthur, so I expect I’d enjoy this game, but I’m just not seeing the innovation. It reminds me of the large project in Middlemarch of revolutionizing the field of mythology while ignoring the last century of contemporary research. I can’t talk much, though, because I have done little innovation myself, usually following established norms.

Link: What is Le Morte D'Arthur?

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Oof. Crawford as Casaubon is dead-on but kinda brutal. Thanks for the summary and looking under the hood, though - I haven’t had a chance to check this out yet but from the blurb and “this isn’t IF” disclaimer I’m sadly not surprised there doesn’t seem to be much engagement with the last decade or two of IF. Still seems like it could be fun but I’ll set my expectations accordingly.

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My impression is that Crawford has a very high opinion of himself and a very low opinion of everyone else, and that this has made him so dismissive of all other efforts in interactive storytelling that he simply hasn’t bothered to update his understanding of the field since about 1990.

Like you, I fail to see anything innovative in the game. On the contrary, it seems very conventional as well as technically and visually underwhelming. The claim that it violates all the norms of firmly established genres seems extremely weird to someone who has followed for example the Twine scene the last ten years.

Yet, I find the plot, character development, and overall narrative truly top-notch. The story is a captivating take on the classic King Arthur legend and, I think, a metaphor for Crawford’s own struggle to find meaning in his work. But there is a lot more to it and much should be familiar to those who have followed Crawford’s career and know about his many hobby horses like “process intensity vs. data intensity" (a little ironic as the game is anything but process intensive). Though it sometimes irritated me in its veiled self-aggrandizement, I still think it all comes together very well, both as a game and a story.

As a point of comparison, I played all the choice-based games in IF Comp this year. I rated the three games that impressed me the most as 8s. And they did impress me! Yet, I would without hesitation have handed out a 10 to Crawford’s game, despite finding almost all of his claims astoundingly out of touch.

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I will try the whole game then, you make a very compelling case!

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A friend referred me to this discussion. Gwen has done a good job of summarizing some of my lectures; she seems to have a solid grasp of the arguments I made in those lectures.

I am gratified to see that some of the commentators here are pleased with the overall merits of Le Morte D’Arthur. I am not surprised by the people who declare “I only played 5 turns, and this thing sucks.” This seems to be a common trait among gamers, for games offer instant gratification and the gratification that Le Morte D’Arthur offers requires at least five hours of commitment. You know, like a novel…

I’ll also contest the claim that Le Morte D’Arthur really isn’t that different. Yes, it starts off slow and simple; that’s because I want to bring the player into the universe of LMD slowly. You really don’t get into the meat of the design until you have experienced several of the socratic dialogues. The first one is pretty simple, but after a while you’re answering questions about the purpose of life and the meaning of death – and your answers to these questions determine the outcome.

Yes, in coding terms it’s quite simple. I spent thirty years building the biggest, toughest, most complicated interactive storytelling technology ever built, and in the end, it was so big and powerful that it was unusable. Designing storyworlds with the Storytron technology was like piloting the Space Shuttle while balancing the federal budget and counseling an abused child. So with Le Morte D’Arthur I put the complexity into the socratic dialogues, which were the most important part of the design and easily the most difficult task.

Lastly, I’ll point out that, because LMD is implemented on the web, it is permanently editable. I finished the alpha version in August, and the beta version in September. But I didn’t stop there; I’m already up to version 𝞯4, and I am continuing to improve it. I am just now completely rewriting one of the socratic dialogues. Ugh.

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Nice to see you. I have a book of yours somewhere :slightly_smiling_face:

May I offer a little sympathy on there being a thread on this forum which bears your name? That must be an odd one. It might seem to be an open invitation to lay out your vision. But also the last thing you might want to do. One single big spotlight creates only very heavy shadows.

To all those who feel they want to comment on Chris’ work, I’d like to suggest a taxonomy.

  • Process
  • Product
  • Performance

If you didn’t like playing the game, then that might be a deficit in Performance. Is that due to bad storytelling in the Product? Maybe, but what if the Product was a test of the Process? Are you going to condemn the Process?

It’'s hard for an individual to make digital art which works successfully online. Many choose to rehearse and refine one particular Performance. Others commit themselves to perfection of one Product.
Some real innovators evolve a Process to serve their artistic ambitions. Trouble is, only a few will even detect that. They’ll focus on the flaws in the Product, or report on how they did not really receive the Performance.

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This is a big problem. It’s not that there’s no innovation in IF, but the innovation has to be experienced in order to sink in.

You can do surprising amount of brilliant ideas using extremely simple mechanics. If you don’t play the game in order to observe emergent behavior, then I’d say maybe you’re not part of the intended audience, and should refrain from criticizing things you don’t understand.

May I remind you that a few innovative people have quit this forum, and that some of them were so offended by the group that they delete everything they did? Is that what you want?

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I had the impression that Ola was the most supportive of Chris Crawford in this thread, having strongly endorsed the game and encouraging others to play it.

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I had the opportunity to play this game over the last few weeks, and posted a review at IFDB. I’m copying it here for anyone interested:

This review is a bit odd to write, as I’m approaching it from two points of view. On one side, this game is a definite artistic statement. The author writes in the overview:

It’s not a game. It’s not interactive fiction. It’s not a puzzle. It’s not action-packed. It’s not fun. If you’re a gamer, you’ll hate it and should not play it. It’s not interactive fiction. If you like interactive fiction, you probably won’t like it. The reason such people should not play Le Morte D’Arthur is that it violates all the norms of these firmly established genres.

And so as someone who does like interactive fiction and puzzles and action, I have to take that into account. It’s essentially like a vegan reviewing a steakhouse, and so as someone not from the target audience, I wouldn’t take my feedback to indicate necessary changes.

On the other hand, I also have to see how I feel about the game just as a game, as if I had found it out in the wild, even though it’s impossible for me to be completely subjective.

In this game, you play as King Arthur. Most fantastic details have been removed; though I haven’t seen it or read it, I’m reminded of the showrunners of Game of Thrones who reportedly stated that they tried to strip as many fantasy elements out of the show as possible, as ‘We didn’t want to just appeal to that type of fan’. Here, too, it seems like the author has strived to appeal to a broad audience. There is no magic, and the traditional systems of chivalry or witchcraft or even tragic noble love are generally missing here. Instead, the focus is on a life of poverty, sickness, animals, and decay after the exit of Rome.

Play is based on little storylets that happen one right after the other, with a few choices per page of text. The game is very large and mostly cyclical, with Arthur dealing with local disputes, having family discussions or issues, spending time with his dog or nature, fighting the Saxons, and discussing with Merlin in turn. Each of these elements progresses as time goes on.

The discussions with Merlin are a focal point for the author, and seem to be the central thread of the game. They are posed as Socratic dialogues, with Merlin asking you questions, generally correcting you for your mistakes.

Now I’ll take about my five criteria for rating IF (which as the intro says, this game isn’t designed for standard criteria, but I find it useful as a way to organize my thoughts):

Polish
The game is polished. While it is still being updated and there are some unfinished artwork, it is a very large game and has few issues for its size, and no bugs that I could see. The ending has a surprise use of video, which was well done.

Descriptiveness
The game is very descriptive. It depicts a squalid and lawless world, with crude but humble people. It paints a picture of decay and loss, loss of culture from Rome and loss of life and land from the Saxons.

There were a lot of features I wasn’t sure whether were historical or not, so I looked it up. For instance, battles tend to have very high casualties, so I looked up how common that was at the time. There is a great deal of rape and sexual interactions with young teenage girls in the first half of the game, so I looked up how common that was. There is a casual disregard for life and a system of slavery, so I looked up about that. Sometimes what I found agreed with the game, and sometime not, but there is a lot up in the air.

The text uses few archaisms but throws in some celtic curses. The language is brusque and casual, with references to farts and diarrhea but also tender family language. There were a few incongruities (one noble uses modern slurs to insult another as a puy faot).

Interactivity
The storylets are disconnected. Choices from one are generally not brought up later on. Instead (behind the scenes) incremental changes to overall stats are made, like Choice of Games. You need not worry if you make the wrong choice about who should lead a clan or who should be put to death, as it doesn’t affect anything later down the road. That’s only at first, though; the last 25% of the game has many important choices to make.

The interactivity does feel better as you go along. At first I felt like I could pick anything and it really didn’t matter, while near the end it did matter more.

I had a very satisfying ending right until the last screen, where I was more or less informed I had been defeated (the code for my ending was defeat resolution). I support being able to ‘lose’ in long games, but I think it can be done in a more satisfying way. In fact, the ending was pretty great; I think one or two lines might make it more satisfying. It’s rough after playing a 6 hour game that takes quite a while to replay to hear ‘you played wrong as a player’ rather than ‘your character made wrong choices’, which are two different sentiments, and I’m getting more of the first sentiment.

As an accessibility note on the ending, I had difficulty hearing the voice as I was in a public space on a quiet computer without headphones. Having a text transcription or subtitles of both sides of the conversation could be useful, even if it only appears after

Emotional Impact
I started this game with a bad attitude, and felt justified as the game was often repetitive at the beginning with low stakes in most choices.

But, due to the slow buildup and epic length of the game, I began to know the characters a lot better, from the local doctor/healer to Mordred and others. It made the ending actually quite satisfying emotionally (outside of the very last few lines), and felt like there were real stakes in dealing with betrayals and friendships and loss.

Would I play again?
I might, although it is difficult to say. The game is very long, and the mechanics are more or less intentionally obfuscated. There is no real way to look at options and think, ‘What is my strategy here?’ Sometimes being bold pays off, sometimes it hurts you. I think that’s a great way to introduce real-life ambiguity into a game, which was why I was so surprised to have ‘you played right’ and ‘you played wrong’ as endings. With all the micro choices over the course of the game and no indications as to what their effects are, I think there’s room for endings that are equally valuable for the player, just varied in the actual results.

Overall, if I had found this game on its own, I would have thought it was a marvelous game. There are parts of it I don’t agree with in terms of treatment of women and some language, but I am often an outlier in feelings of that sort and wouldn’t base any decisions off of that. Due to that, and to my feelings about the combination of unclear consequences and strongly delineated endings, I’m giving 4 stars out of 5. I think most players who stick it out through the lengthy game will enjoy it, and I would consider it a success and one I can recommend to others in the future as an excellent historical fiction and military story.

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Thanks a lot for the review. I’m glad that you stuck to your usual criteria for rating, but that you also elaborated on them and explained your thoughts and opinions.

I’ll have to clear some hours over the next weeks and read it myself.

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