Replay Programming Dilemma

I just read through a transcript from someone who had clearly played the game before, as they skipped a step-- examining object X then reveals object Y, and they tried a command on object Y without examining object X first (it’s not at all likely that a new player could guess that object Y existed without finding it first).
I have it programmed to say “What object X?” if someone tries to do something to it before they find it. I think I did this (it’s hard to remember why I did everything) specifically to keep replayers from skipping steps.

But now on reading the transcript, it seems like this is just annoying, as the player kept trying to move forward and couldn’t. The replayer clearly knows object Y is there and what to do with it. Should I eliminate the need to examine object X first? Or was my first instinct the correct one and I should just leave it?

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Well, the replayer knows it’s there, but does the character know?

If it’s a character-centric game, I think the character has to be made to find out that the object is there before they can be allowed to interact with it. That said, you may be able to cut out the number of intermediate steps required for an experienced player. But if the number of intermediate steps is only one (examining A before you can examine B, and B is the end of the chain) then I’d say don’t let them skip it.

You have to watch out for custom fob messages - e.g. an innocent ‘What clockwork statue?’ when anything else the player can’t see is giving ‘You can’t see any such thing.’ It tends to draw more attention to the thing than less. If the player gets the same fob they’re getting for everything else, that gives them a clearer sign they need to change the game so they’re NOT getting the basic fob. The danger of a custom message is it makes people think ‘Ah yeah, this object’s different, I can get at it now if I just type the right thing for this object.’ But that’s not quite the issue.

-Wade

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This is an excellent point. That goes on my list of post-comp fixes.

You can often get away with a line like

> TAKE KEY
You shuffle through the file folder and discover a key!
Taken.

Good job, the character has discovered it, problem solved.

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I’m in the opposite camp from severedhand on this one: if I’m replaying a game, I don’t want to be forced to jump through the same discovery hoops again. If the brass key is under the doormat, I don’t want to be forced to have the conversation with the neighbor who tells me that he left the key under the doormat before I can find it. For me, any gatekeeping of that type feels punitive and is immersion-breaking.

On the one hand, no, the PC doesn’t know that the key is under the doormat, and there’s a whole lot of dramatic distance between the player at the keyboard and the player character in the game in situations like this: if I just look under the mat for the key based on my own knowledge from the last play-through, then I’m breaking my own immersion to a certain extent. On the other hand, it’s me who’s doing it, and it’s something I’m already willing to do, something that I’ve already made my peace with doing. Having the author drop into the game to play the role of Rules Nanny and shake their finger and say No-no-no! You have to talk to the neighbor first! feels condescending and heavy-handed to me, and it’s more of a turn-off for the game than it would be to just let me move forward, if that’s what I’ve decided I want to do.

Part of the issue here is that forcing the player to jump through hoops is a huge rip in the illusion of realism, which is always already tenuous in parser IF. If the neighbor told me in the last playthrough that he left the spare key under the mat, I want to be able to test whether that was done: it should be under the mat already. (Maybe the PC isn’t likely to look under the mat without being told, but it’s possible, and supporting that option is a small kindness to the player.) Keeping it off-stage until I check a box on the plot checklist and then moving it to the place where it was always supposed to be is like having the magician show you the pocket sewn into the jacket where he hides the doves.

But at a deeper level, it’s a violation of trust between the author and the player: we’ve been working together to tell this story, and we got to a place of cooperative mutual respect on the first playthrough. It’s not all that often that I give a game a second playthrough anyway: there are so many other games I want to play! (I can only think of one game I’ve played this year that I’d ever played all the way through before, and that’s Anchorhead.) If I liked the game enough to pick it up a second time, then chances are I want to spend my time poking at the things I didn’t do before, not checking off the same boxes I checked on the first playthrough; so having the author force me to jump through hoops out of a sense of narrative purity or misplaced loyalty to realism is not going to improve my opinion of the game. Ideally, I want the game to be on my side. Forcing the player to jump through hoops forces the author-player relationship into being adversarial instead of cooperative.

But it all depends on the totality of circumstances, of course. It depends on the PC’s character as developed in the game, and it depends on the exact situation, and it depends on how well it’s finessed, and it depends on how big a pain it is to jump through the relevant hoop. The situation you’ve described sounds like a small thing, and it wouldn’t be likely to get me to abandon a second playthrough.

All in all, I most like Zarf’s pragmatic suggestion of winking at the “cheating” and then allowing it, providing an in-game rationalization for how that came to be. (There are many other ways that that winking could plausibly occur: “You remember reading that in these old houses, there are often slots for keys under doormats. You check and there is the key!” – only better, of course.) It both satisfies the player’s desire to move forward and the author’s desire for conceptual plot unity.

Welp, that’s way more than I meant to write. Sorry about that.

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Me, personally, with @patrick_mooney here. One of the advantages of parser vs menu is the ability to fiddle with the world implicitly, without need to dig down through the all descriptions tree. I’ve built the mental model of the world already, I’m ready to optimize. Then it is the author’s responsibility to keep it immersive.

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It’s cool when you can do this. But sometimes you can’t, or you could but it would feel ridiculous in context.

To me, all these games are hoop courses, mechanically! The author has to pick where and how they want to enforce the hoops, following some kind of sense that they also decide upon. The enforcement has to be somewhere inbetween making the player retype everything and letting them type WIN GAME :slight_smile:

-Wade

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Ha! I actually did that. Nobody found out about it, though. I didn’t see any comment regarding that action. :grin:

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Haha! Yes, well after I’d typed this, I thought, ‘I wonder if someone has implemented WIN GAME yet?’ My guess is that probably more than one person has, but now at least I KNOW one person has!

-Wade

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This may not apply, but be aware that in the past the online transcripts will occasionally glitch and drop some commands.

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The Nemean Lion is a funny and short game that does something in a similar direction. :lion:

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This is a nice solution. I think something along these lines is the right way to go here. It walks a clean tightrope between keeping the player in the spirit of the game, and not being a

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