Hello, new user excited to find this forum!
It looks like there’s a couple of posts near this topic, but rather than the how of creating a stat-based and dice roll-based results system (I’m using Twine, for reference), I’m curious as to people’s thoughts on how visible such mechanics should be to the players?
The way I see it, I have a few options on visibility:
No reference to ‘under-the-hood’ mechanics. You click an option not knowing the chance of success.
Give a percentage probability of success before the player clicks the option.
Have a stat bar constantly on the side of the screen (I’ve built the code for this), and label each option with what you’d “roll” with. I probably wouldn’t show any potential modifiers from successes on previous choices/rolls.
Lastly, the same option as before where you click to roll with a certain stat, but with a visual representation of dice rolling.
It feels like players, at least those in my friend group who like the TTRPGs that this game is based on, would prefer the visual dice rolling gif, but that seems complicated to input and from my understanding, a good portion of the IF community uses screen readers, so it would be lost on them. If I go with the side bar of stats, I believe I can implement a screen reader mode that can be opted into so that won’t be an issue.
Has anyone implemented any of the above options? What was tester and player feedback?
I’d like to get a feel for how it will look and play out before I commit to far to one choice or the other.
A big problem, historically, in parser games (because in parser games you can generally try an action over and over) is when there’s a random chance of success, players try the action, fail, figure “oh that never works”, and give up. So some explicit indication that there are dice being rolled would be nice.
In choice-based games, meanwhile, a similar problem is when it’s not clear what is being tested—you might have a general sense that actions succeed or fail based on your stats, but not know that this option you chose is going to be testing your Dexterity.
In both cases, I think being explicit is a good option. Especially if this game is based on a TTRPG, players of the game will enjoy seeing the dice involved. Two examples of this are Reliques of Tolti-Aph, based on (I believe) Tunnels and Trolls, which is a parser game that says “rolling 1d20+5: 7+5=13, failure” and the like; and Night Road, based on Vampire the Masquerade, a choice-based game where you build a character sheet and it says “[Resolve + Stealth]” in the choice links so you know what you’re picking.
That’s an interesting question. I’ve been playing tabletop role-playing games for 35 years (wait…am I so old by the way ???) , and I’m currently coding a campaign I created using Inform 7, a somewhat crazy but very funny project.
I asked myself the same question as you, and I think the answer depends on the genre, theme, and perspective of your story. In my case, it’s an investigation-based game focused on deduction and the relationship to reality. I’m logically leaning towards hidden dice rolls for a literary and natural feel, deliberately leaving the player uncertain about the success or failure of their actions, though they are aware of their character’s skill levels, which they can more or less customize at the beginning of the scenario. However, if your story fundamentally revolves around the success or failure of physical actions, displaying dice rolls could offer a strong narrative advantage.
Welcome to the forum! I’d like to second Stéphane’s point, I think that any of the methods you specified could work depending on context and what you as the author are trying to achieve.
When writing IF I tend towards invisible rolls because they seem to suit the genre/style better (I’m always hoping that players will make the most characterful choice rather than the tactical one) but as a TTRPG player half the fun is getting to see my rolls! If you have an idea of the approach your intended audience might prefer, that might be your answer.
I guess it would be easy enough to implement an opt-in/out setting for seeing dice rolls, especially if it’s displayed in the sidebar, if you wanted to leave it to player discretion as well?
I’m definitely in the camp that I like to know that there’s a %age chance of success, and to see that listed, either as an actual percentage, or as a difficulty range. I also like seeing the actual dice rolls, because I’m also a TTRPG player, and like dice.
In one of my past games I had one word descriptions after links that had a chance of failure (like “risky” or “dangerous”). In my current WIP I have the actual dice roll that’s going to happen explicitly listed, but that one allows you to manipulate the dice roll if you choose, so it makes sense to have it visible like that.
Another option, of course, is removing the dice rolls entirely—remember that most players won’t play any particular game more than once, which means most people won’t perceive a 67% chance of success, they’ll perceive a 100% chance (if the roll succeeded for them) or a 0% chance (if it failed). Even in a parser game where actions can be retried indefinitely, it just tends to become frustrating to roll the dice over and over until you succeed.
This is the option Loose Ends (also based on Vampire the Masquerade) goes with. Every action either succeeds or fails, deterministically. The skills on your character sheet just unlock new options: maybe the “intimidate the cop into letting you past” option always fails, but the “use your power to manipulate mortal emotions to make him fear you” one (only available if you have that power on your sheet) succeeds.
This means we only had to write success or failure responses for each action, not both, which was nice!
I think, based on everyone’s awesome feedback, that I’ll have to carefully straddle the line between disrupting the story and letting the player make informed choices. Because one of the things I’m worried about, with this story in particular, is disruption to the flow of the narrative.
So, for this story (which is basically a love letter to Tamora Pierce’s Trickster’s Queen novel), I think the best option would be something like:
Sneak past the guard (attempt with Stealth)
Convince him to let you pass (attempt with Charisma)
etc
Then again, my other story under consideration is a dating show dating sim (the MC is competing in a dating show, loosely based on Single’s Inferno), and I think due to the competition aspect, it might be less intrusive to have full dice information? But it’s more typical to expect the fantasy novel (the Tamora Pierce one) to be the TTRPG-style…
Personally, I thought the die roll animations in Baldur’s Gate 3 got old relatively quickly. If the rolls are going to be frequent, I’d probably prefer to just have a note saying
If you want to see an explicit Twine version that’s frequent, and live now, play The Killings in Wasacono from this year’s IFComp. I found the handling of the rolls and modifiers in that to be excellent.