The Nord and Bert recommendations are looking good!
I think they’re fine! I agree the Little Match Girl series is a bit of an outlier here; there aren’t a lot of super long series like that in IF.
Edit: Although, of course, my answer was based on the way IFDB is currently, and if a separate “more games by this author” section were added to game pages, that would make me lean towards having the recommendations algorithm exclude them.
I think “subsections” is the right approach here.
The old IFDB feature had a section, “If you enjoyed $title”, with several subsections:
$title also gave high ratings to these games:”$title”$title appears in the following Recommended Lists:”$title”We still offer explicitly recommended similar games, as well as recommended lists and polls. (Not sure if your algorithm incorporates lists and polls, BTW…?)
I think it would make a lot of sense to add two more sections:
$author$series seriesIf we did that, highlighting other games from the same author explicitly and separately, it would then be unnecessary (and even unhelpful) to show other games by the same author in the list of automatically generated similars.
I think the Mark III model is exiting beta. Here’s another short chain of recommendations.
Right now, I’m looking for the following feedback for tuning and improvement:
Note to authors: There’s no need to be shy about asking for recommendations from your own games. Please put aside your natural modesty in this case; your feedback is high priority.
+----------------+----------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+----------------+----------------------------------------+
| The Spectators | What Heart Heard Of, Ghost Guessed |
| The Spectators | Fairest |
| The Spectators | After the Accident |
| The Spectators | ZIT |
| The Spectators | Of Their Shadows Deep |
| The Spectators | The Lonely Troll |
| The Spectators | Varicella |
| The Spectators | Napier's Cache |
| The Spectators | Things that Happened in Houghtonbridge |
| The Spectators | Nautilisia |
| The Spectators | Rover's Day Out |
| The Spectators | Bolivia By Night |
+----------------+----------------------------------------+
+-----------------------+------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+-----------------------+------------------------------------+
| Of Their Shadows Deep | The Dying of the Light |
| Of Their Shadows Deep | Will Not Let Me Go |
| Of Their Shadows Deep | A Rope of Chalk |
| Of Their Shadows Deep | Your Death, in Four Acts |
| Of Their Shadows Deep | The Lonely Troll |
| Of Their Shadows Deep | Untold Riches |
| Of Their Shadows Deep | Fairest |
| Of Their Shadows Deep | What Heart Heard Of, Ghost Guessed |
| Of Their Shadows Deep | Doggerland |
| Of Their Shadows Deep | The Spectators |
| Of Their Shadows Deep | Bigfoot Bluff |
| Of Their Shadows Deep | Sunset Over Savannah |
+-----------------------+------------------------------------+
+-----------------+--------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+-----------------+--------------------------------+
| A Rope of Chalk | Sting |
| A Rope of Chalk | Ekphrasis |
| A Rope of Chalk | Pageant |
| A Rope of Chalk | Gestures Towards Divinity |
| A Rope of Chalk | Meeting Robb Sherwin |
| A Rope of Chalk | Heading East |
| A Rope of Chalk | The Ascent of the Gothic Tower |
| A Rope of Chalk | Of Their Shadows Deep |
| A Rope of Chalk | Common Ground |
| A Rope of Chalk | SPY INTRIGUE |
| A Rope of Chalk | The One That Got Away |
| A Rope of Chalk | Curse of the Garden Isle |
+-----------------+--------------------------------+
+-----------+---------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+-----------+---------------------------------+
| Ekphrasis | Gestures Towards Divinity |
| Ekphrasis | April in Paris |
| Ekphrasis | Aviary Attorney |
| Ekphrasis | All Roads |
| Ekphrasis | Filaments |
| Ekphrasis | La Cité des Eaux |
| Ekphrasis | Lieux Communs |
| Ekphrasis | The Sculptor |
| Ekphrasis | A Rope of Chalk |
| Ekphrasis | Ethics AI: Don't Freeze Edition |
| Ekphrasis | Andromeda Dreaming |
| Ekphrasis | Weishaupt Scholars |
+-----------+---------------------------------+
+-------------------+-----------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+-------------------+-----------------------------------+
| La Cité des Eaux | Lieux Communs |
| La Cité des Eaux | Catapole |
| La Cité des Eaux | Les Heures du vent |
| La Cité des Eaux | Citronille |
| La Cité des Eaux | Faute De Servo |
| La Cité des Eaux | Le Cercle des Gros Geeks disparus |
| La Cité des Eaux | La Tempête |
| La Cité des Eaux | Noir d'Encre |
| La Cité des Eaux | Plic Ploc |
| La Cité des Eaux | Astres solitaires |
| La Cité des Eaux | Ekphrasis |
| La Cité des Eaux | Divine Bonace |
+-------------------+-----------------------------------+
Once again I haven’t played enough of the games on the lists to be very helpful, but this one jumped out to me as rather odd. I’m guessing it’s the common “walking through the woods” element—and maybe also parental focus?—that’s linking them, but the gameplay and overall tone are so different that it would never occur to me to recommend one based on the other.
As for others I would have expected to see in that list, This Person is Not My Father is one.
It could be helpful if there were a way to figure out which games to recommend by a particular author. Sometimes an author writes very different games, and someone who likes one of the games might not like another.
Spectators to Things that Happened in Houghtonbridge seems a bit odd to me – the latter is a little creepy, but it’s an Alice-in-Wonderland inspired mystery, not the kaleidoscopic horror of Spectators. Rover’s Day Out also seems like a weird fit – I haven’t played it but I think it’s a somewhat comedic, high-concept sci-fi game, so can’t think of much it’d have in common with Spectators (Napier’s Cache is also a bit of a stretch, but it’s also a historical parser game so I guess I see it). Honestly my general take on these recs is that they’re way too biased towards parser games – for Amanda’s own games that makes sense, but there are a ton of choice-based games involving abusive relationships that feel like they’d be way closer fits than anything I’m seeing here.
Of Their Shadows Deep linking to Rope of Chalk seems funny to me – they’re both kinda magical-realist slice of life games, I guess? And then Rope of Chalk linking to Sting is weirder, since if anything I’d expect OTSD and Sting to be more closely connected (the presence of Meeting Robb Sherwin on the RoC list too makes me think there’s a low-population “memoir” tag or something like that which is responsible for this – ah yeah, there it is “autobiographical”).
Generally the RoC ones seem good to me, though!
Looking at the IFDB page for The Spectators, I would guess that’s because it doesn’t currently have any tags relating to that aspect of the game. Which is an easy fix, at least (I can add a few right now, even)!
Be sure to give yourself credit on the Tagfest big board. (Yay, Tagfest!)
Nice seeing some games in French!
It makes me wonder: if one’s looking for games similar to a game in a certain language, would they want games in another language recommended (as is the case for Ekphrasis)? I’m undecided.
I imagine this is a case of insufficient tagging etc. (and I know there’s a drive to try and improve that), but the game that’s really missing here is Contrition, which is credited as being inspired by Weird City Interloper.
(And Weird City Interloper was itself very inspired by Porp’s games, so I feel like there should be at least one on there. Contrition just seems like the obvious one.)
I (regrettably) don’t speak French, so I don’t know much about French IF – though I have heard of Ekphrasis. How were the recommendations for it and La Cité des Eaux?
I don’t play a lot of choice, so the examples that I pick tend to be parser games. Here’s a short chain of recommendations starting from a well-known Twine game.
It would be good to get more feedback from choice fans, so if anyone else wants to test more choice games, feel free to suggest some titles!
+-----------+--------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+-----------+--------------------------------+
| Birdland | Bell Park, Youth Detective |
| Birdland | Open Up! |
| Birdland | The Grown-Up Detective Agency |
| Birdland | Brain Guzzlers from Beyond! |
| Birdland | The Missing Ring |
| Birdland | BOAT PROM |
| Birdland | Red Door Yellow Door |
| Birdland | Pageant |
| Birdland | Known Unknowns |
| Birdland | Yesterday, You Saved the World |
+-----------+--------------------------------+
+----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Red Door Yellow Door | He Knows That You Know and Now There's No Stopping Him |
| Red Door Yellow Door | Suspended in the air so that all of your weight is concentrated on a single point halfway down your spine |
| Red Door Yellow Door | Gestures Towards Divinity |
| Red Door Yellow Door | 1 4 the $ |
| Red Door Yellow Door | Studio |
| Red Door Yellow Door | The liberation |
| Red Door Yellow Door | Your Body a Temple, or the Postmodern Prometheus |
| Red Door Yellow Door | PARANOIA |
| Red Door Yellow Door | A Thousand Thousand Slimy Things |
| Red Door Yellow Door | La libération |
+----------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
+--------------------------------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+--------------------------------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Your Body a Temple, or the Postmodern Prometheus | A Thousand Thousand Slimy Things |
| Your Body a Temple, or the Postmodern Prometheus | Suspended in the air so that all of your weight is concentrated on a single point halfway down your spine |
| Your Body a Temple, or the Postmodern Prometheus | He Knows That You Know and Now There's No Stopping Him |
| Your Body a Temple, or the Postmodern Prometheus | Body Bargain |
| Your Body a Temple, or the Postmodern Prometheus | Time's Gap |
| Your Body a Temple, or the Postmodern Prometheus | PARANOIA |
| Your Body a Temple, or the Postmodern Prometheus | 1 4 the $ |
| Your Body a Temple, or the Postmodern Prometheus | Studio |
| Your Body a Temple, or the Postmodern Prometheus | Red Door Yellow Door |
| Your Body a Temple, or the Postmodern Prometheus | Gestures Towards Divinity |
+--------------------------------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
+---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Gestures Towards Divinity | Red Door Yellow Door |
| Gestures Towards Divinity | Galatea |
| Gestures Towards Divinity | Ekphrasis |
| Gestures Towards Divinity | Exhibition |
| Gestures Towards Divinity | He Knows That You Know and Now There's No Stopping Him |
| Gestures Towards Divinity | Your Body a Temple, or the Postmodern Prometheus |
| Gestures Towards Divinity | 1 4 the $ |
| Gestures Towards Divinity | Suspended in the air so that all of your weight is concentrated on a single point halfway down your spine |
| Gestures Towards Divinity | we, the remainder |
| Gestures Towards Divinity | Studio |
+---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
+-------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+-------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| we, the remainder | He Knows That You Know and Now There's No Stopping Him |
| we, the remainder | Gestures Towards Divinity |
| we, the remainder | MARTYR ME |
| we, the remainder | A Murder in Fairyland |
| we, the remainder | Get Your Gun, Dragonfly |
| we, the remainder | Skulljhabit |
| we, the remainder | Suspended in the air so that all of your weight is concentrated on a single point halfway down your spine |
| we, the remainder | POV: You're a Teenage Girl in a Conservative Christian Family |
| we, the remainder | With Those We Love Alive |
| we, the remainder | Counterfeit Monkey |
+-------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Oh, I meant the recommendation’s choices, not yours. My theory was that redundant-ish tags meant that it was hard for the algorithm to “jump” from one side to the other, but actually the Birdland recs here and the subsequent chains are picking up a bunch of parser games too (partially because Charm Cochran writes both parser and choice games). But it’d be interesting to see if that happens with other choice games - maybe, I dunno, Trials of Rosalinda, January, Limerick Heist, and Computerfriend?
The Birdland suggestions look pretty good, but I think I’m coming around on excluding other games from the same author—most of the previous games by prolific authors have had a variety of suggestions, but other than we, the remainder, these Charm Cochran games seem to be getting like 2-3 suggestions that aren’t by the same author.
Yeah, it’s tough because I think the efficacy depends a lot on whether the author is prolific or not - but in the case where there are a lot of games by the same author I agree, it does look like those are dominating in a a less-helpful way.
The Scroll Thief recs look good (lots of Enchanter homages); what does it say for Loose Ends?
The sad truth is, I haven’t played la Cité des eaux… From what I know, they look mostly OK, I guess? Some might be out of place (Citronille and Divine Bonace maybe, but don’t take my word on it). But then the pool of games in French is smaller too, and they might have been less tagged.
For Ekphrasis, I can’t tell since they are mostly English games I haven’t played. That was my point earlier: as a French-speaking person that might not understand English, do I want recommendations in English? But then maybe I do speak English and I want them. Or maybe I’m an English speaker that want to discover more French games so I don’t want them…
Maybe there should be an option to restrict to same language.
For @DeusIrae (Computerland was already covered above):
+-------------------------+---------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+-------------------------+---------------------------------+
| The Trials of Rosalinda | The Bones of Rosalinda |
| The Trials of Rosalinda | Plasmorphosis |
| The Trials of Rosalinda | 4x4 Archipelago |
| The Trials of Rosalinda | Ürs |
| The Trials of Rosalinda | Cactus Blue Motel |
| The Trials of Rosalinda | Escape From Summerland |
| The Trials of Rosalinda | Lux |
| The Trials of Rosalinda | The Griffin and the Minor Canon |
| The Trials of Rosalinda | Chuk and the Arena |
| The Trials of Rosalinda | A Murder in Fairyland |
+-------------------------+---------------------------------+
+-----------+--------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+-----------+--------------------------------------------+
| January | Accelerate |
| January | we, the remainder |
| January | The Archivist and the Revolution |
| January | Fingertips: The Day That Love Came To Play |
| January | Blackout Crysis |
| January | doomsday dreamgirl |
| January | The Monster In Me |
| January | Survival Horror |
| January | Before the Storm Hits |
| January | Impetum Maleficus |
| January | Five Scarabs |
+-----------+--------------------------------------------+
+----------------+----------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+----------------+----------------------------+
| Limerick Heist | LET'S ROB A BANK |
| Limerick Heist | The Prongleman Job |
| Limerick Heist | The Magpie Takes the Train |
| Limerick Heist | Lord Bellwater's Secret |
| Limerick Heist | Alias 'The Magpie' |
| Limerick Heist | Kotodama |
| Limerick Heist | Shuffling Around |
| Limerick Heist | A Tale of the Cave |
| Limerick Heist | Escape to New York |
| Limerick Heist | A Matter of Importance |
+----------------+----------------------------+
For @Draconis:
+------------+---------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+------------+---------------------------------+
| Loose Ends | Search for the Lost Ark |
| Loose Ends | Dracula Part 1: The First Night |
| Loose Ends | A Time of Tungsten |
| Loose Ends | Fallacy of Dawn |
| Loose Ends | Goldilocks is a FOX! |
| Loose Ends | Draculaland |
| Loose Ends | The Plague - Redux |
| Loose Ends | Goblet of Mercy |
| Loose Ends | Necrotic Drift |
| Loose Ends | My Angel |
+------------+---------------------------------+
The Mark III model places more emphasis on common authorship than earlier versions did. I did consider the impact pretty carefully before making this change, because I was worried that it would end up including too many games by the same author in the output.
Since the update, it looks like the histogram has moved a little in the right direction – at least as of right now the mode average answer is better than “half-working.” That data suggests that overall it’s an improvement. (…but everyone should definitely update their votes if they think it’s gotten worse. That’s the point of the tracking poll.)
Having traced some of these, in practice what I’m seeing is that although the new model does include games by the same author on a list more frequently, common authorship does not seem to be the primary reason that those games are added. It’s not uncommon for the same author to write more than one work with similar themes or topics, and by design these other aspects do create relevance for matching. Games by other authors that don’t end up being included are almost always relatively low-quality matches, of the type that are frequently picked out as “oddball.”
That said, if you can point out some specific games that you think should have appeared on the lists of any Charm Cochran games, then – again – that’s the most valuable feedback right now. And if you add one or more relevant tags on both sides (i.e. on the Charm Cochran game and the game you think is comparable), that should help the model in deciding whether to include it in the list (after a data update).
I’ll certainly keep a close eye on this going forward.
Loose Ends not recommending anything else by me is a good sign! It’s very different from anything else I’ve done, and people who liked it will not necessarily like Scroll Thief.
However, the rest of these recommendations feel a bit off. The biggest game I think should be connected to it is Night Road, which was its biggest inspiration in several ways. Draculaland feels like a big miss.