Climb and climb down

Suppose I have a tree in a garden, and the tree can be climbed. When in the garden the player can type CLIMB, CLIMB TREE, CLIMB UP or just UP to ascend the tree.

Once in the tree, the player can do CLIMB DOWN or just DOWN to get back down. Would you also expect to be able to do CLIMB or CLIMB TREE to go down the tree?

If not, how should the parser respond?

If so, what about if you can climb higher up the tree? Does CLIMB take you up or down?

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I suspect you’ll get player variance on this topic.

Personally I treat verbs like this as toggles. A cliff has two ends. CLIMB at either end will take you to the other. Ditto ladders and other two-ended things. Or a bridge and CROSS. I guess I feel if I do implement things this way, I’ve covered people who think like me, and people who don’t won’t be affected.

(Okay, so it might get more complicated if you have a three storey tree :slight_smile: )

-Wade

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well, the extreme case ought to be an “Annoytron II: Climbing the sequoia”… :wink:

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

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Agreed.

If you are at the top of the tree, yes.

If you are midway up a tree, then CLIMB UP and UP should take you up the tree, CLIMB DOWN and DOWN should take you down the tree, CLIMB and CLIMB TREE are ambiguous, so the game should ask whether you want to go up or down.

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Thanks for the comments so far. Another one. Would anyone every CLIMB DOWN STAIRS or CLIMB STAIRS to go down the stairs? I think CLIMB STAIRS to go up them is possible.

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I can’t recall whether I’ve ever used CLIMB UP STAIRS or CLIMB DOWN STAIRS, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable. If you added this to the climb tree scenario, then everything that’s valid for the climb tree scenario is also valid for the climb stairs scenario.

EDIT: In fact, I have used CLIMB UP <noun> and CLIMB DOWN <noun> in at least one of my own games.

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CLIMB STAIRS works to go both up and down stairs, in Inform, if you build the stairs in the “obvious” way. (Create an always-open door object called “stairs” between the rooms.) I recommend keeping that behavior because somebody might be used to it.

CLIMB UP/DOWN STAIRS seems like a nice thing to support, but I don’t think I’ve ever used it. I think people are more likely to type CLIMB UP/DOWN, with no noun, just because that’s shorter! So if you go down (or up) this route, be sure that works.

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In the context of a parser game something short is good, and “climb” and “climb tree” would be useful for climbing down a tree. Maybe I’m bad at English though because I generally associate “climb” with going up.

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I think that’s how most English speakers would mean it.

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I was going to make the point that perhaps for a link based game it would be nice to specify the longer “climb down”, but I think I’m satisfied with the shorter version for parsers. Or at least I can’t think of a better alternative.

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I agree. That was really why I asked the question.

But given the responses, sounds like CLIMB should be for going down as well. Thanks everyone.

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The (likely idiosyncratic) connotations for one native speaker of American English:

“Climb” implies exertion or effort or care. So you climb up a lot more things than you climb down, 'cause it’s not climbing down if it’s trivial. Certainly, one might climb down a rope, or a mountain, or a tree, or a ladder. Parents shout “Climb down from there!” as an imperative to kids who have gotten somewhere precarious.

But if the context is an able-bodied person going down a short set of stairs of modest slope, a reference to “climbing down” them would sound a little off.

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You try being able-bodied and getting on in this life! -runs off in tears-

-Wade

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I think the difference between stairs and trees is that it’s obvious that you can go UP/DOWN stairs, but it’s not obvious that the tree is there to climb, so if I was in a field with a big tree, I wouldn’t automatically show UP as one of the exits. However, once someone had climbed the tree, the location to which they’d go would have DOWN listed as an exit. I would also allow ‘CLIMB DOWN’ as a synonym for DOWN for any location the player had to climb up to reach.

I must admit, I’d not even thought of using CLIMB STAIRS as a synonym for UP (or DOWN) in a location with stairs. Just as I don’t tend to use GO THROUGH DOORWAY or CROSS FIELD (for example) as synonyms for moving between locations where the compass directions are already listed as exits.

I think there’s a balance to be struck between trying to parse every way in which movement could be articulated and expecting a player to respond according to certain IF conventions (such as using compass directions/UP/DOWN/IN/OUT).

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