Adaptive Directions (Left, Right, Forward, Back)

I just thought of this reading the topic about the problem of describing things in terms of NSEW and was wondering how feasible having a secondary relative direction system that changed as you went room to room. Not even close to a coding stage with it but I think its kinda cool to talk about.

After going North, North becomes Forward, South becomes Backwards, East becomes Right, West becomes Left.
After going South, South becomes Forward…
After going East, East becomes Forward…
After going West, West becomes Forward…

for some rooms you would end up having to compensate for turns with clarifications, and it isn’t ideal for diagonals but it could make some descriptions seem less immersion breaking, particularly if the PC doesn’t have a compass and the problem of having forward/back/left/right being somehow static even if a person would normally have turned or something.

Or would it end up being a little cumbersome and hard to visualize in the mind of the player?

There have been a few discussions about this, it’s funny how it keeps cropping up.

In practical terms, the (very) few games where this, or something similar, has been attempted - relative movement instead of absolute - it was pretty much agreed by players that playing an entire big game like that is cumbersome and disorienting.

Personally I also happen to think it’s trying to graft a graphical, 3d design - which is more about a first person viewpoint of your surroundings - into an IF design, which is more about bird’s-eye views of maps, in terms of general localisation.

Opinions vary, and bottom line, if it’s done well it’ll be great. I don’t see relative movement replacing absolute movement as a convention, but if you want to make a game that you think will be all the better for it, you should totally do it. Just choose beta testers with an open mind and listen well to what they have to say afterwards.

Do you happen to remember any titles that use relative direction? I think with my current projects I am perfectly fine with using the standard NSEW, but it would be interesting seeing an implementation of such a system.
Might try it with something small and indoors at some point though, once I get a good handle on inform.

There’s a TADS game where you play a rat…

…and Countdown to Doom, with a whole maze in relative movement…

…but hey, I unearthed some reading material for you. :slight_smile:

https://intfiction.org/t/the-compass-is-everyone-just-lazy/6049/1
https://intfiction.org/t/alternatives-to-nsew/4234/1
https://intfiction.org/t/how-about-left-right-up-down-as-compass-directions/2089/1
(Huh, I didn’t even remember my posts in that one)
https://intfiction.org/t/the-compass-location-descriptions-and-mimesis/8434/1
https://intfiction.org/t/i6-navigating-with-left-and-right/2040/1

EDIT - Maybe this should be stickied or something. :stuck_out_tongue: I mean, having a new thread for it every year or so isn’t a problem, but if keeps coming up, there’s some interest in the issue.

Ah cool, I will get onto the reading then :smiley:

Probably on the reading list, but Rogue of the Multiverse does this.

TUNDRA by paperblurt uses left right forward and back, but there is no turning, and it just maps to NSEW. There is a map though. And it is in twine.

Yeah I don’t think I would use LRFB as compass directions, I personally find it very disorienting. The game seems interesting enough but I find it very weird going through a series of rooms “backwards” or “leftward”.

(edit)
Just finished it. It was interesting, makes me want to actually take a better look at twine.

It’s possible that for the Twine audience, LRFB made more sense than NSEW since they were looking at a map and might not have the same automatic Zork-gene that orients parser players to NSEW.

PaperBlurt does amazing stuff and I think is highly underrated. He and Porpentine both are great at styling hypertext.

(sidenote: I nominate Alan DeNiro to do the Twine version of HOUSE OF LEAVES)

Well I guess that adds to my reading/playing list. Yeah the biggest thing that stood out in TUNDRA was the style.

If you want full-on crazy relative direction, Mystery Mansion (1978) has relative directions when the player is in the house while not holding the compass, up to and include items being described in different locations based on which direction the player entered from.

It is maddening. The only reason I didn’t rush for the compass first is I mapped that room last!

I kind of wonder if having a facing variable that is shown to the player would clear that up.
“You think you are currently facing south” or have similar information on the banner, and include actions such as turn left, right and around.
It might be a lot of extra adaptive descriptions needed, but it could add something, like you don’t see whats on the back of a door if you come through it from the south and are facing north (though on a large scale i could see this being a very annoying mechanic).

I agree about the potential annoyance. Also, I usually play in VERBOSE mode (which runs an extra LOOK action every time you enter a room), which I interpret within the fictional universe to mean the player character is taking the time to look around at their surroundings as they go. Having them miss something on the back of a door because they’re only telling me what’s directly in front of them would be quite irritating. (Assuming it’s something puzzle-relevant: if it’s just for flavor, having the description change based on direction would be less aggravating though still a bit disorienting.)

I was thinking that it might create something similar to escape point’n’clicks where you end up searching through a smaller environment. If scale is 3-5 rooms a facing mechanic might help pace out the higher level of detail and helping it not feel like more rooms than it is.

You are in the prison chamber, looking to the east.

vs

You are in the eastern side of the prison chamber.

I don’t know if IF is the best format to that sort of thing though.

Well, now, you’re talking about a different sort of movement in order to achieve a specific effect on a certain enclosed space. That’s something else entirely. :slight_smile: You can totally get away with doing that.

Play Shade to see something similar. It’s a one-room game, but you can move to various parts of the room without using compass directions. I think Lord Bellwater’s Secret does the same thing. It’s not unlike what you’re talking about.

Actually, just play Shade anyway. It’s worth playing.