Word count for games of various length?

[MTW (Marshal Tenner Winter)]

what might that game be?

The one that comes to mind is the one from way-back that boasted thousands of rooms but failed to tell the player that 99% of the rooms are bland rooms in a huge maze. Too bad I don’t recall the name…

[Laroquod]

Probably something massively empty like Time Zone.

As for number of moves as a measure, the problem with that is that some game designers like to design puzzles that can take hours to solve but which, once you know the answer, can be solved instantly with one command. Some game designers even hide a way to win the entire game with a single command, as a kind of easter egg. (A game designer I follow on Twitter just mentioned a few days ago that a text game of his has just such an ‘instant solve’ key, and it wasn’t the first time I have heard of them, although I can’t remember where before.)

I feel that number of moves bears even less relationship to the ‘size’ of a game than the number of words. Here’s an Inform 7 game that I just wrote in one minute but that takes a thousand moves to solve…

[code]Waiting Room is a room. “There is nothing to do in the waiting room but wait.”

After waiting 1000 times:
end the story finally saying “You have finally waited long enough. Congratulation, you win!”;[/code]
If I compile this and upload it to the if-archive and post in on IFDB… do I win the internet? 8)

[matt_weiner (matt w)]

@MTW

what might that game be?

The one that comes to mind is the one from way-back that boasted thousands of rooms but failed to tell the player that 99% of the rooms are bland rooms in a huge maze. Too bad I don’t recall the name…

I think this is Snowball from Level 9.

EDIT: And it wouldn’t be my guess for the game with the most prose in it, because those thousands of rooms won’t produce very much prose among them. Maybe Blue Lacuna has the most prose – although by some measures it may be Hunter, In Darkness.

[MTW (Marshal Tenner Winter)]

I think this is Snowball from Level 9.

Thanks! Now I feel like checking it out!

[mostly_useless]

@Laroquod

[code]Waiting Room is a room. “There is nothing to do in the waiting room but wait.”

After waiting 1000 times:
end the story finally saying “You have finally waited long enough. Congratulation, you win!”;[/code]

Hi Laraquod, I’ve copied this into Inform 7 and started playing. It’s pretty awesome! However, I’m stuck in the Waiting Room and was hoping you could help. I’ve waited for, like, 800 turns, but nothing seems to be happening! Could you provide a walkthrough?

Thanks.

[MTW (Marshal Tenner Winter)]

Yeah, put it on the IFDB so we can review it!!!

[zarf (Andrew Plotkin)]

As for number of moves as a measure, the problem with that is that some game designers like to design puzzles that can take hours to solve but which, once you know the answer, can be solved instantly with one command.

That is true; you need some kind of “the way a player would actually solve it” qualifier to make this a useful measure. It is a useful measure, though, in that case.

Here’s an Inform 7 game that I just wrote in one minute but that takes a thousand moves to solve…

Now you’re just being silly. Word count is a perfectly viable way to describe the length of a novel, even though I can write a book consisting of the word “buffalo” 200,000 times over.

(In fact, I can write many different novels of this form, with different arrangements of the verb “buffalo”, the adjective “buffalo”, the noun “buffalo”, and the proper noun…)

[mostly_useless]

Remind me never to read a zarf novel.

[Laroquod]

@zarf

Here’s an Inform 7 game that I just wrote in one minute but that takes a thousand moves to solve…

Now you’re just being silly. Word count is a perfectly viable way to describe the length of a novel, even though I can write a book consisting of the word “buffalo” 200,000 times over.

A fair point, but that novel would obviously not be a real story, whereas my game is a real game with a goal and win condition. It even contains a hint!

(In fact, I can write many different novels of this form, with different arrangements of the verb “buffalo”, the adjective “buffalo”, the noun “buffalo”, and the proper noun…)

I think I saw somebody do that on the internet one time, for fun, using only punctuation and prepositions to acquire meaning. I felt that one did actually qualify as a proper story, albeit a short one, as it probably would have taken almost as long as a real novel to write.

[Laroquod]

@mostly useless

@Laroquod

[code]Waiting Room is a room. “There is nothing to do in the waiting room but wait.”

After waiting 1000 times:
end the story finally saying “You have finally waited long enough. Congratulation, you win!”;[/code]

Hi Laraquod, I’ve copied this into Inform 7 and started playing. It’s pretty awesome! However, I’m stuck in the Waiting Room and was hoping you could help. I’ve waited for, like, 800 turns, but nothing seems to be happening! Could you provide a walkthrough?

Thanks.

z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z…

What? No really, I’m paying attention. Now where was I?

z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z.z…

[cmuAdamson]

@David Whyld

Not necessarily. A game might only require a small number of moves to be completed, but those moves could generate screen after screen of text and so take a long time to actually read/play through. Or you might have a game that requires many moves to complete it, but those moves only generate a few words each time so you could progress to the end very quickly.

I was thinking the minimum turn count is another measure of the size of a game – not a mapping to the wordcount, but rather another way to express the size and complexity of a game. It is also something that could generate competitive interest in a game: who can solve game X in the least number of moves?

[maga (Sam Kabo Ashwell)]

@Laroquod

If I compile this and upload it to the if-archive and post in on IFDB… do I win the internet? 8)

You’d be about fifteen years late. (Or twenty-one years late, since the game’s based on a fictional game in a Terry Pratchett novel.)

[MTW (Marshal Tenner Winter)]

Another issue: Is word count a proper way to “measure” a game? Some games are conducive to wandering, exploring, talking, and basically taking your time. Is the least number of moves needed to solve it a proper way to quantify an IF? It may not be what the author intended. It’s not the same as how-fast-can-you-read-a-novel because of the interactive component.

[zarf (Andrew Plotkin)]

Another issue: Is word count a proper way to “measure” a game?

I thought that was the issue we’ve been discussing all along.

[MTW (Marshal Tenner Winter)]

@zarf

Another issue: Is word count a proper way to “measure” a game?

I thought that was the issue we’ve been discussing all along.

I know, I’m high and worded that wrong. I meant more of the latter portion of my post. My apologies.

[Dannii]

maga wins! I was just about to suggest that.

There is another game out there which consists of going west 1000 times, followed by east 1000 times. But I forget what it’s called.

[matt_weiner (matt w)]

@Dannii

maga wins! I was just about to suggest that.

There is another game out there which consists of going west 1000 times, followed by east 1000 times. But I forget what it’s called.

Annoyotron. Is it actually 1000? I’ve finished this game (at least I think it was the ending). I liked the joke but I wish it had been a bit more deadpan.

EDIT: Anyway, you have to go west, then east, then west again, however many times it is.

UPDATEY EDIT: It’s actually 100, which means I definitely spent less time wandering around in that game than I did in Andromeda Awakening. (Sorry, Marco.)

[Laroquod]

@maga

@Laroquod

If I compile this and upload it to the if-archive and post in on IFDB… do I win the internet? 8)

You’d be about fifteen years late. (Or twenty-one years late, since the game’s based on a fictional game in a Terry Pratchett novel.)

Nice! Looks like I’m going to have to raise my game to waiting 31,557,628,800 times… at 8 hours a day, 1 second per command, solving it should take about 3000 years plus almost a whole nother day!

Technically, though, you could probably type Z faster than once per second. But also technically, Journey to Alpha Centauri might be solvable in no moves, since real time games advance on autopilot. (For those keeping track, no moves is fewer moves than 31,557,628,800 moves.) Even more technically, these technicalities are extremely silly.

[Trip]

This topic’s getting better and better :mrgreen:
Keep the suggestions for awesome games going, guys! Playing my first IF, Anchorhead, but I’d drop it in an instant for Laroquod’s game.

[mostly_useless]

@Laroquod

(For those keeping track, no moves is fewer moves than 31,557,628,800 moves.)

Laraquod, your logic is infallible as always.