I think if you do compare the average scores of all games, this year is down from the previous. But it just be that games are being rated more harshly, due to rising/settling standards or new players coming in who aren’t as tolerant of wonky design. I found my scores, at least, to be generally lower than the average scores.
It’s also interesting to look at how many people played each game (which, presumably, helps indicate which games the people who didn’t play every game and who didn’t play games at random were most likely to play.) For instance, Yon Astounding Castle! of some sort got only 76 votes, the second-lowest – did its name scare people off? Or was it just because it was Adrift?
Trap Cave having the lowest vote total is hardly a surprise, given that it was a Windows game.
Byzantine Perspective got the most votes. Did its fancy-sounding name make people more likely to try it?
First of all, Trap Cave is not a “Windows game”. It’s a text adventure for the Node-X interpreter which runs on Windows and Linux. And hopefully it will also run on MacOS and handheld systems in the future once proper cross-compiling tools are released and I can finally compile my terp’s code for these systems too.
Second, the low amount of votes for Trap Cave had other reasons. One major reason was that the english version was only partially translated from german to english. Another major reason - which I claim - is that this community is hostile against CYOA and programmers like me who want to bring in new systems which may pose a competition to Inform, Glulx and the like.
You may be right about CYOA, EK_Dev. You may even be right about Node-X. But until you actually make a game that truly demonstrates the potential of the system, no-one is going to pay any attention.
I can’t read German, so I haven’t played Trap Cave. But reading the reviews by people who can read German (prime example), I don’t see people complaining that its not Glulx. I see people complaining that it’s extremely generic and shallow, and that at certain points it doesn’t give them options that they felt were logically available to them. Even if these comments are motivated by hostility towards the future, they also sound like complaints that are entirely valid.
You had an entire year after entering Project Delta to create a game that could show off the capabilities of Node-X and present a strong argument for how you feel text games should progress. Instead you gave us a game that does something we’ve seen a hundred times before, sometimes a hundred times better. Exactly which part of Trap Cave - a story-light cave crawl with instant death - is supposed to be recognised as a paradigm shift in text gaming? If anything, it shows that you’re not even aware of previous shifts in the medium, something that will hardly make people sit up and listen.
Certainly there are a few people in the IF community who are resistant to new formats, or new modes of interaction (but probably a lot less than in other forms of game). When you’ve actually created an interesting game that they disregard solely for its novelty, rather than its flaws, then you get to complain about them. But only then.
I’ve mentioned before that I like you, Emilian, but after a year of you plugging Node-X at every conceivable opportunity, I’m not looking forward to another year of you complaining that you’re being persecuted. You’re not. People didn’t like Trap Cave because it’s flawed and old fashioned. Node-X - and you - can do a lot better.
I’m a programmer and techno musician, but no game designer or novel writer!
It is not my job to write a top-notch academic interactive fiction game. Ask TOP 10 IFComp writers instead. I’m sure they can do a better job than me in that field.^^
In a professional game company the roles are clearly defined too. You have programmers who code the engine for a game. Game and Level Designers who create ideas and build the actual game on that engine. Game and texture artists who create the look and feel of the game which the game designers have envisioned. And game musicians and sound engineers who contribute their particular talent to make the game sound good. And last but not least you have the publisher who is responsible for marketing and advertising the game.
You can’t blame the programmer for being a newbie in art design. It’s not his expertise!
You can’t blame game designers for bad marketing. It is not their job but the publisher’s!
I think everyone agrees with me on that subject.
Same as I can’t blame IFComp writers for not being able to code their own Inform or Glulx parser systems, because it’s not their expertise.
My particular expertise is programming. If you’re looking for a good programmer then I am your man. But if you want me to write a good Interactive Fiction game myself then I have to disappoint you. I’m a newbie in IF writing. That doesn’t mean that I won’t be able to write good interactive fiction some day, but it takes time and experience. Especially in my case, because my main focus since 2007, when I started to code Node-X, is and will be the system/engine itself. In other words, writing lines of source code that rocks. I usually do not pay much attention to the adventures I write at this point. My engine is the real game, if you want.
I had an entire year to code a much more advanced version (1.1) of Node-X. And I have done a good job imho. Read the included NXI_ChangeLog.txt file. It is a report of everything which I have done between October 2008 and September 2009 concerning the system itself. Who cares about Project Delta or Trap Cave? They are just examples. The Node-X system is my real work. Programming is an art by its own. You can’t code a system like Node-X in a few days only. It requires a lot of time and planning, especially if you deal with upward and downward compatibilty issues, as I do. For example, you have to make sure that gamefiles created for an older generation of Node-X or savefiles created with an older version are compatible with a newer generation and version that doesn’t exist yet, and vice versa. An interesting science all by itself, if I might add.
So why don’t you stop complaining about my text adventures and write your own ones with the Node-X system? It’s very easy. I have given you the tools. Now it’s YOUR turn to show me what you can create with it… if you need tutorials for the scripting language then you know where to find me.
Trap Cave has a cool ASCII logo! Retro-style. You reviewers said it yourself. :mrgreen:
Isn’t it a nice little feature I have given you? You can mix ASCII art and text in your IF adventures!
You can’t do that in Inform or Glulx!
You were good until that sentence of yours which is quoted above. Node-X and I can do a lot better, you say? Aha. Who are you to tell me? My mom? LOL!
Don’t even start with me on that subject or tell me that I haven’t done enough, because it will be you who will look stupid in the end. Coding an engine AND writing a game for it, all by yourself only, is much harder than just writing a text game for an existing Inform or Glulx system! Imagine the IFComp organisers would demand from the authors to program their own parsers with their games each time. Then you would not have 24 authors in the last competition but much less, like 3 or 5 people, including me. I would participate in the competition anyway, just to show my programs. hehe.
They should make a competition for IF system programmers. Who can code the most interesting construction kit or something like that. I would be the first to join.
Ah, Emilian. I’m glad to see that your enthusiasm and positivity have returned. I was starting to worry that I’d scared you off.
That’s perfectly fine, just so long as you remember that IFComp is a competition for games. The subject of discussion was Trap Cave’s performance in the comp, and if you spent the past year working on something else, it was never going to do much better than your previous game.
I can certainly see that there’s a bit of a Catch-22 in play here - until someone writes a cool game with Node-X, I don’t think many authors will want to use it… but without authors, where does the cool game come from?
I will admit that I did take a poke into the Node-X files during IFComp, but I couldn’t get a good grasp on what was going on in there. Perhaps if you started a Node-X thread in the Other Development Systems sub-forum, we could get a discussion going?
You think you’re special, just because you use a system like Inform which you didn’t even code yourself? I bet you don’t even know how to program a system like Inform from scratch with C/C++ or another programming language. And I bet you’re just jealous that a guy like me could do it.
I tell you something: Nobody is special. Not you… not your bully-parade who started to attack me from the very beginning on in 2008 for whatever reasons… and not even me. Yeah, I know, I’m not a honorable german in your eyes, but just a guy from Poland who you can treat like your 13-year old brother. Believe me, I can see racists and Poland-haters everywhere I go. It doesn’t matter if I live in Germany or Honolulu. But I know how to defend myself. If people keep bullying me on the internet I will call the FBI. Simple as that. I guess you know that bullying and mobbing other users on the internet, like wintericecastle did to me with his videos at youtube, is considered a “cybercrime” which the FBI takes very seriously. And it doesn’t matter if you are a server administrator and make up your own community rules to ban “unwanted” users like me, because the FBI/Police can override it. You don’t want to make it end like that, do you?
And at least I don’t have to show off how “AWESOOOME” I am with my text adventures. I mean, come on. If it were some elite games with the latest 3D graphics which you guys designed then I would understand it, but you and your reviewers make all this trouble because of text adventures? Don’t make me laugh. Really, that’s childish. Then some of you have the arrogance to vote down other authors the next year in the comp, like a certain author from 2008 did who I don’t want to name here before I get banned from the forum again, because he is some prominent professor or whoever. I never needed to win this competition, because I, even if you don’t believe it, participated for the fun only. And to have a good time with other people in the community here, which you screwed for me by the way. Congratulations.
And I didn’t come to the comp for “business reasons”, like some suspicious people who make advertisement for a certain search engine which I don’t want to name either, even if I use it every day. Heh. I mean this is ridiculous. I really don’t know what problem you guys have. But this is not normal. Believe me.
With that being said, I think it’s better you mind your own business from now on and find yourself another idiot who you can make fun of.
Because you would never given me the chance anyway. One of your reviewers spoiled it finally. He said I could make the best game in the world and he would still give me bad reviews and votes. You think you can fool me? You think I haven’t already discovered your true intentions in 2008? It’s not about the performance of my games here. That’s a blatant lie and you know it. It’s about me. You guys hate me, because you and your friends are racists. So don’t even try to play games with me, because I have already disguised your evil plans.
I haven’t watched the movie Catch-22, but I know what it is about. And I know what you’re trying to imply with it. I am not insane, so stop insulting me like that. You say you like me, but behind my back you make fun of me. Great. But very ineffective. You still underestimate my real power.
No. I think you should start a Node-X thread in my forum (see URL in my signature).
There is a difference between complaining and defending your position when you are being attacked for no valid reason. I think that’s undisputable. If you rape a girl and she kicks you in the nuts then don’t shout at her afterwards, because you obviously deserved it.
If you’re not looking forward to another year of Node-X then maybe you should leave…
I mean it’s a psychological thing. You revealed yourself and implied it: You try to scare me off in hope that I don’t come back again. So ofcourse I will come back again and again and again… until you stop.
Do you know the “Schisshase-Spiel”, as they call it in Germany? It goes like that: Two cars drive with full speed towards each other. Now one car has to evade the other car or there will be a crash. The loser is the car which evades first. And the game is lost when both cars evade or crash, but that’s unlikely in our situation. Because I know haters like you. You are so arrogant that you will never evade. And that’s good. Because I can defeat you that way.
So, let’s play your game. You think my car will evade first? And I tell you I rather crash my car into yours if it has to be that way. So if you want to get out of this situation then YOU better evade, because I won’t do it and we will both lose. There is no winner in this game anyway.
I don’t give you a chance either. You can write the worst reviews about me and my games, I will not leave!
That’s funny, since you were the one who brought it up.
First: no, I don’t think I’m special.
Second: we all base our own work on the work of others. Did you write your own C/C++ compiler? Did you write your own assembler? No, you used tools “which you didn’t even code yourself”, and that’s OK.
Third: no offense, but a CYOA generator is not exactly comparable to a system like Inform (or TADS, or Hugo, etc.) which compiles a complex object-oriented language to run on a virtual machine. It’s a fine accomplishment, but just because you wrote Node-X doesn’t mean you can “program a system like Inform from scratch” either.
Fourth: you just lost two bets. I’m not going to get into a pissing contest with you, but this (source code here) was written in a language I designed, compiled with a compiler I wrote myself, and runs on a platform for which I’ve written my own interpreter. The game itself is a port of Ed James’s ATC, but I think we can both agree that original game design isn’t our strength or our goal.
That must be exhausting.
You don’t really think you’re intimidating anyone, do you?
If the FBI actually cared about people being less than cordial to each other on message boards, the internet would be a very different place.
I didn’t say I didn’t care about ASCII art in systems. I said I didn’t care what Inform does with it.
That’s a difference.
That’s sad. Because everyone is special in his/her own way.
At least programmers can code applications for certain compilers. Most people can only install and use applications which programmers have coded.
But you know what: really elite people build their own hardware. Can you build your own microprocessor? I can’t and you can’t either.
How do you know I couldn’t program a system like Inform? Do you know me that well? Or do you judge me only by the work I’ve done so far?
Or let me guess: You think my programming skills suck, because the Node-X interpreter runs in a DOS window. A typical misconception. Good DOS programs can do more than Windows-based applications. Just because a program has a cool GUI doesn’t mean that its functionality is better than a program running in a DOS window.
I wonder how you guys would reacted if I presented Node-X in 32-bit graphics in 1280x720 or higher resolutions. For me as a programmer the so-called “video output” makes no difference. It’s the internal code which is important. Same with videogames. You can have the best-looking game in the world, but if it crashes every 5 minutes then it’s badly programmed and not worth it.
This is not a “pissing contest”. And why do you think that my words were adressed to you? I was adressing all the bad IFComp reviewers out there. You haven’t reviewed none of my games, as far as I know. You only showed up now and started an argument with me. What do you want?
Please speak for yourself only, okay. Again: How do you know I couldn’t design an original game? Do you know me that well? Or do you judge me only by the work I’ve done so far?
And to make things clear: I said that my current goal is to program a solid system with lots of cool features. But that doesn’t mean that I won’t be interested in original game design in the future. I mean how can I build a game if I don’t have a system to build it on?
I could also submit a text adventure written in Inform to the IFComp. But it would make no sense, because Inform doesn’t give me what I need to create my vision of a game. So I have to build my own system first which has all the features I need.
Mostly not, because I ignore haters in real life and try to keep out of their sight. But here on internet I have to deal with haters when they attack me. I can’t block them or delete their comments as I could do on YouTube, for instance.
Yes, I do. Times are changing. Just because you sit there anonymously in front of your computer and talk rude to others, doesn’t make you invincible anymore. There was a recent case in Germany where a father sued an entertainer, because he made fun of his son on television. The father said the entertainer ridiculed his son publically on television and made him look stupid in front of millions of TV viewers. The judge agreed and he won the case. Now the entertainer and the TV channel have to pay money to the father and his son. The same can happen to you if you ridicule others on YouTube.
“A very different place”? I guess you mean a place where racists, nazis, trolls and haters have no chance to go on someone’s nerves. I would love such a place.
Heh. Your exact words were: “Isn’t it a nice little feature I have given you? You can mix ASCII art and text in your IF adventures! You can’t do that in Inform or Glulx!”
But when it was pointed out that you can, you said “Who cares if Inform can do that. I don’t.”
If you don’t care whether the things you say are true, why should anyone bother listening to you?
Maybe you should have asked yourself those questions before you wrote: “I bet you don’t even know how to program a system like Inform from scratch with C/C++ or another programming language. And I bet you’re just jealous that a guy like me could do it.”
You quoted me and responded to my post. There was no indication that any of those words were addressed to anyone else.
I’m sure you could with the right amount of motivation and practice. I’m just going by what you said earlier: “It is not my job to write a top-notch academic interactive fiction game. […] But if you want me to write a good Interactive Fiction game myself then I have to disappoint you. I’m a newbie in IF writing. […] I usually do not pay much attention to the adventures I write at this point.”
You wrote several paragraphs, including insults and threats to call the FBI, in response to me pointing out that something you said was inaccurate. I hope that’s not your idea of ignoring.
I see. So how much money do you think someone would have to pay if he said “you and your friends are racists” or “I have already disguised your evil plans” on the internet, where it could be seen by over a billion readers?
Then let’s stay on topic and talk about why exactly you rated my Node-X game so badly in the competition…
So what do you want? Make me admit that I made a mistake and didn’t know that Inform could do ASCII logos?
Only strange that I haven’t seen a single Inform adventure yet which had an ASCII logo.
Anyway. I think I can name other features which Node-X has and Inform hasn’t. For instance, the Chunkloader and automatic protocol/transcript function which I wrote. Don’t tell me Inform can automatically repair broken savefiles or save automatically generated transcripts into textfiles, because I checked it. Inform can’t. You can correct me if I’m wrong ofcourse, but I know pretty sure that these features are unique and made by me only.
I understand. You don’t want me to address you directly. Maybe you are different than the others indeed. I can’t tell that, because I don’t know you.
My mistake. I should have used the word “bad reviewers” instead of “you”.
Okay. But have you actually played Trap Cave to judge whether my own estimation was right or wrong? Or do you just go along with what I say without further thinking about it?
I mean if you wrote “My nickname is vaporware and it’s bad” then I would either replied “I also think that your nickname is bad” or “No, I think your nickname isn’t that bad as you think”. I wouldn’t replied “Yeah, your nickname is bad, because you said so.”
You see the difference? Whatever I say you take for granted, as if you don’t have your own opinion about it. Or you take it too literally without actually bringing it into the right context.
I can only think about two possibilties why you do that: Either on purpose or because you really can’t understand me.
Normally in such a situation I would ask you how old you are. But I assume you are an adult and able to interprete what people say to you.
Again, you are linking two aspects with each other which don’t belong to each other. Either on purpose or because you really don’t understand the meaning of my sentences.
I can only repeat what I said before: I was addressing the bad reviewers and not you directly.
And besides, if I tell someone that I will call the police or FBI if he/she doesn’t stop attacking or hurting me then it’s not a threat, but called self-defense. And it is my right to defend myself. If you were a true American you would understand it. But obviously you can’t even get that together.
Boy, you are good. Do you have a master degree in psychology or something? I should really watch my language when I talk to you, because in the end you make this look as if I was the bad guy, eh.
But nice try of yours in scaring me off again, I have to say. :mrgreen:
LOL! That’s the first time in our conversation that you made me laugh. I mean it in a positive way.
A billion readers? Haha, are you kidding me? Dude, you can’t even get so many views for a single video on YouTube. Maybe 23 million if you are a famous superstar like Britney Spears. But not a billion.
And watch the counter below this forum. You can be lucky if 10 or 15 people visited this forum today and read our conversation in this thread.
I guess that was part of your scare-tactic. It’s cute that you actually believe you can intimidate me.