Tempted by IFComp 2025, but still hesitant

Competitions IFComp
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I’ve been following the 2024 IF competition from a distance. On the one hand, I’m currently absorbed in my own IF project, which takes up most of my free time; the project is not advanced enough yet to offer anything playable. I’m working on a series of interconnected stories set in the same universe, where the structure is closely tied to the plot, which requires developing a common set of rules that define this universe. On the other hand, I’m generally not interested in competitions. They can be fun when the subject doesn’t really matter to me, but that’s definitely not the case with this kind of activity.

Yet, after reading various posts—whether they’re about the competition or not (I’m still relatively new to this forum)—I’m starting to wonder if I should reconsider my stance. I’m beginning to realize that the community of text-based interactive fiction enthusiasts, especially those who prefer to avoid the use of generative AI, is quite small. I’m also becoming aware of the qualitative difference between this forum and many others, because developing interactive fiction requires imagination, empathy, the ability to think abstractly, and a sense of logic. As a result, the discussions here are intelligent, relevant, and generally seem calm and constructive. When a veteran advises a newbie, it’s factual and efficient, never mocking or mean-spirited. There are so many clever people here!

So, I’m starting to wonder if perhaps participating in IFComp 2025 might actually be a good idea. My first episode will be ready by then, and it seems like the perfect opportunity to get valuable, real feedback to help improve my project from one episode to the next. Since I’ve set myself the goal of producing one episode a year within this universe, it seems ideal. The only question is whether it fits the concept and the spirit of the competition. Is it really appropriate to submit a fairly long episode each year (which remains a complete story)?

Is this the right event for that? Or are there specific themes, constraints, or particular expectations regarding technical innovation (for example: the game must be designed so the judges are able to finish it in order to evaluate it; or the game must include a certain number of “must-haves”—and if so, what are they)?

In short, I need some valuable advice to determine whether it’s relevant for me to participate next year, or if it’s not the right fit. Any response is welcome. And once again, congratulations on all your 2024 creations!

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I’m just a newcomer, so hopefully you’ll get some more in-depth answers by all the intelligent people here, but my advice would be to just follow your intuition and go with it!

I do believe that none of the restrictions you fear actually apply here. My only advice would be not to plan too far ahead and put too much pressure on yourself following a self-created timetable.

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Thank you for this advice. On that point, I’m well-trained :slight_smile:

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What you’re describing sounds fine for IFComp to me! I’m not sure if there are any series where every entry was released for IFComp, but entries in ongoing series routinely do well as long as they’re fairly standalone—in the past few years, A Dream of Silence Act 3, The Little Match Girl 4, and The Grown-Up Detective Agency have been top-10 games that were entries in a series.

If you’d prefer a smaller event, there’s also Spring Thing, which I can personally vouch for as a great home for yearly long installments in an ongoing series because that’s what I’ve been submitting to it.

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While the IFComp advise you submit completed works, it isn’t uncommon to see prologue of entries or sequels of previous games. Since I’ve joined in 2022, there was at least one entry that was either part of a series or a start of one. And it’s really fun to come back to those titles and play the previous entries or a follow-up/complete version of the game down the line!

There are no restriction, only advice (like the game should be playable and in some sort of complete form - though you will sometimes find broken entries) and best-practices (:pray: test your game, and then test it again).

Whether your entry is the right event for the IFComp depends on your goal with it. As in: what kind of feedback/review you’re looking for (the SpringThing tend to be less harsh for example, but you also get less reviews, the ParserComp tend to hone in on the parser elements but again, less reviews), whether you’re ready for criticism and discussions of your entry in spaces you might not expect, etc…

There are a few threads with some really good advice for first-time entrants on what to expect (usually appear at the start of the Voting period) and lessons learnt by the authors (through post mortems), which give often tons of great advice too!

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In short: participate!

This year I participated for the first time, I had fun writing the game, and I got a lot of suggestions to do better in the future, I saw what a player does.

I am convinced that only by putting yourself out there can you improve.

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The feedback I’m looking for is the following: Did the player enjoy exploring the game’s universe? Were they engaged by the plot, its development, and resolution? Did they feel like they had the opportunity to truly impact the course of events? Was having to integrate the norms of a world different from our own tedious or stimulating? Did the gameplay serve the gaming experience, or did it feel like an artificial constraint that broke immersion? These are all elements that I believe are frequently discussed in IFComp reviews…

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The three games that make up the Earth and Sky series by Paul O’Brian took 8th place, 1st place, and 1st place in the competitions of 2001, 2002 and 2004. :slight_smile:

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Scooped by Victor, I was thinking of Earth and Sky too! I think various Andromeda games have also been in the Comp, though that’s a pretty loose series. And Limerick Heist/Quest….

But yes, I think the Comp could be a good fit for what you’re looking for, especially in terms of the feedback you’re likely to receive, though Spring Thing could certainly work too (the other events tend to get fewer reviews, so if you’re primarily interested in feedback those are probably the best options).

I do think that it’d be helpful to think about how the game/games work as standalone experiences; having hooks pointing to other parts of the worldbuilding that might be explored more deeply later, or side characters who clearly have their own thing going on, probably works better than breaking up a plot so that you don’t get to the end (though sequel teases could certainly work - those aforementioned Earth and Sky games, if I remember right, used the Marvel movie thing where each had a self-contained adventure but pointed to a bigger climax).

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I have done three parser games for IFComp and all of them were fairly long, with this year’s game (Hildy) arguably the longest. For the Moon Never Beams was the shortest and if I remember correctly, most people were unable to finish in the time limit without accessing the hints.

It hasn’t really been an issue. My advice is don’t worry about the length. Tell the story you want to tell. If it takes longer than two hours for most people to play, there’s a reason that “longer than two hours” is a tag they let you assign to the your game. There is no rule on the length of your game, just on how much of your game people can play before they must vote.

Having said that, there’s nothing wrong with breaking it up into installments, but I suggest making sure each installment is its own story with a complete narrative arc.

That doesn’t mean the narrative arc has to be complex. I beta tested the 2018 entry Dynamite Powers vs. the Ray of Night! by @Mike_Carletta and loved it even though, if memory serves, it was essentially a one-puzzle adventure that started in media res. But it was still a complete story.

But all of that is opinion. The IFComp rules are fairly light on what you may submit. You aren’t going to violate any comp rules with anything that you’ve suggested.

I also am going to say this. My experience on intfiction.org is that this site is frequented by those who rank among the most patient, personable and selfless people on the internet. Asking questions here has been a delight. Really. I have never had a negative experience from asking a question and I have asked a lot. I am not a programmer by trade. Beyond a bit of HTML, I had zero programming experience before downloading Inform for the first time and authoring Diddlebucker! in 2017-2018. I have had tons of questions and I am always amazed by the prompt, solicitous replies I have received. I am sure your experience here will be the same.

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I think IFcomp would be a brilliant place to get this sort of feedback! It’s such a fantastic opportunity to get a wide variety of feedback from players with varied tastes, areas of knowledge and experience levels, which is beyond valuable when developing your work. And, echoing what others have said, it’s such a uniquely encouraging and supportive community. I really hope to see your work in a future comp!

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This is the kind of feedback you can get from any competition—these questions are commonly answered in reviews from IFComp, Spring Thing, ECTOCOMP, SeedComp!, and other comps and jams with a review culture.

With that said, as Manon noted, IFComp will get you the largest volume of reviews. If you’re comfortable showing it to a lot of people, once you have your game in a state you feel is ready for release, that’ll be what gets the most eyes on it.

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Yes, exactly. That’s how I envision it—as a matter of courtesy to the player, who may not necessarily want to play every episode. From the perspective of understanding the plot, they should be able to grasp a tangible and coherent portion of the mystery by the end of their adventure.

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Yes, that’s already the case. In fact, that’s what mainly motivates me to participate next year. The idea of being able to present my work to people who share the same mindset and to receive valuable feedback from them is really appealing.

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I’d suggest submitting a short entry, unrelated to your main projects, if the alternative would be not entering at all. This isn’t to say DON’T enter the things you have planned - just that if you decide not to in 2025, you may still find it rewarding to have an entry of some kind in the comp, even if it’s considerably less ambitious.

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I know this is wise advice. I will notify by the end of the year. Either my wordsetting will be in progress, and the worldbuilding framework will be stable, in which case I would be ready for IFComp 2025. A priori, this is the current trend in my work. Either I will have underestimated the difficulty of my objective, and then I will have to ask myself the question. That said, I do not wish to participate to have my name in the list, but to progress, so if I opt for this option, there will necessarily be a connection - perhaps only technical or thematic - with the initial project.

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Thank you Lauren, you have finally convinced me.

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IF Comp is a good way to find an audience for your work, it’s true. So far as feedback goes, though, you can do that as soon as you have something playable! You do not have to wait for a major competition to get advice on the state of your game. I think this is a challenging hump for a new author to get over–asking for help–but I’m glad I did it.

This forum is a good place to find testers, by the way! Whatever event you choose to enter, my advice is to test early and test often. Testing is not merely concerned with technical matters. Questions like “does this feel like a complete experience” are completely in-scope. In my own experience, getting this kind of subjective feedback helped me finish a game that I really felt proud of.

(my answer to IF Comp is “sure, why not?” but the road is paved with testing)

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It’s true. Here, my experience as an old GM in various universes will help me. I also think - in any case, it’s my bet - that starting from a coherent (and therefore programmed) universe produces credible intrigues and appropriate and natural gameplay. I think in layers, I start from geography, biology and physics before launching into the creation of assets, relationships and then a story. At the base of this stack, I mercilessly cut the perspective of presentation of the game universe to give it a strong theme and avoid scope creep. Where I agree with you is that the player should not have the impression that the theme obscures the potential of an experience or limits it. Limits must be accepted as natural constraints of the fictional world, and even as support for action. This is where we need to verify through testing that the author’s intention is understood.

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I’m still working on my 1995 entry. If you can get something out by next year, you’ve got me beat. Good luck!

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