Reasons a player might not want to engage with Web-Based parser deployments

Playing
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“Unwilling” is a strong word which smells of prejudice. Or maybe something is just wrong with my nose. Some of us, who have tablets which have no mobile data and only a wifi receptor, prefer to be able to play IF even when there is no WiFi available. If lack of internet means I can’t play the game whenever and wherever I like as I would any other offline game, and tethers me to a physical location (playing IF in a commute or waiting room is awesome, and I definitely don’t have internet there) I do prefer to pass on the game, yes, especially since there is no shortage of games.

Just wanted to clarify what this “seeming unwilligness” was.

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An author's reference for Bisquixe, a tool for adding audiovisual content to Inform projects (up: inline links and minor tweaks)
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A web game can be downloadable. I believe this is often an option in the larger competitions. Bisquixe has no way of knowing if a web page is local or remote.

Should Bisquixe authors provide a downloadable web game? I think that’s an important question. My gut answer is “yes.” It would be interesting to know what kind of demand there is.

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I am merely reacting to the wording. “Seem unwilling” feels patronizing. I was explaining where that “unwillingness” comes from. That’s all. Web-only games will exist, and have an audience. Offline-only, same. We are not “unwilling”. That is all.

I think rewording that passage would be an improvement.

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It is best not to argue, so I won’t say more, but that is the very definition of “unwilling.” It is fine to be unwilling, I have nothing to say about that.

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Hmmm.

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As someone who primarily plays on the Web – I always appreciate a downloadable option for accessibility reasons. An offline interpreter makes it fairly easy to customize things such as text size and color scheme! Using this method it is in fact much easier to restyle a disagreeable game than in Twine (which requires browser tricks, third party plugins, and/or manually editing the CSS yourself). I’m much more likely to actually play them as a result instead of just closing the tab and moving on.

I have no issues with the wording here since I don’t think you’re implying that people are being unreasonable to prefer a downloadable option.

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(this is not a reply to N. Cormier’s post, just to clarify. I was busy and only now came back to it)

I see you consider the issue closed. I certainly don’t want to make a big deal. I was thinking how best to constructively reply, and I think that what I will do is simply describe how I read the wording.

And then there will be the usual “well, that may be how you read it, but it’s not what I wrote or what I intended”. And I don’t want to go there, no one wants to go there, that’s a whole other discussion. But I won’t feel that i’ve successfully made my point until I describe how I read your chosen wording.

While younger players and newcomers—a very important audience, to be sure—often favor web-capable games such as those hosted at itch.io, others seem unwilling to engage with Inform games for the web.

When I read “seem unwilling to engage” in here, I read “these people appear not to want to”. Subtext: “for whatever strange reason”. As though these people’s reasons were bizarre, and something to be unfortunately put up with. The key word may even be “seem”, rather than “unwilling”. Although, if I choose to do my IFing on a tablet with no mobile data (which I always have to keep an eye on anyway or risk going over the limit to pay more) and therefore curate offline play, is that “unwilling” to play online games? On an axies between “unwiling” and “unable”, I would be closer to the latter.

Context: with more and more games being online only, those of us with these limitations and choices (a bit of both) can feel frustrated to see yet another great game come out which we won’t play. It’s not totally unlike being “unwilling” to buy a console just to play a game or two. That is how it feels. I apologise if this context has made me over-sensitive.

So there you have it. I quoted what you wrote, I told you what I got from that, and you’re clearly satisfied with what you wrote and I think I appropriately expressed what I wanted to express. I think that’s it. I respect the fact that, unfortunately, what we say/write sometimes gets interpreted in a way we didn’t intend. Happens all the time. To me, what matters is how the situation is resolved afterwards. I consider it resolved.

Incidently, I apologise for butting in in the reference thread. I didn’t realise it was meant to be a reference thread. It was a thread in a forum; I thought posting in it would be natural. I see I must take careful care in the future.

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I’ve pointed out that this is not applicable, as web games can be downloaded. I’ve even stated that this should be an option. I’ve clarified the post to say so.

I do appreciate you bringing this up, because I had not considered it necessary in the past. I’ll add downloadable web versions for all of my games in the near future.

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I’ll happily come down on the side of the unwilling. I already have my interpreter. I like it.

Also, I’ve been annoyed by enough games (mainly VNs) choosing stylish but hard-to-read fonts to be wary of trusting someone else to decide those for me, even though their intentions are well meaning.

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I will point out that “no mobile data” is almost beside the point. It happens to be a reason that others find reasonable enough. Because my real reasons are often brushed aside patronisingly. My real reasons are, I want to whip out my games-machine and play at any time any where I feel like it. Even, especially, in a plane trip. A commute. A waiting room. Knowing that I can, without any limitations, load up an amazing experience at any time I feel like it is empowering. Whereas, being dependant on internet service feels more slavish; shackling; and I will never have any guarantee that the game will remain online. A few years down the line, the game may disappear. And I’ll never play it again. Whereas, if I download it, as long as I keep it and make backups, it’s always there.

These are my real reasons. I stopped saying them because I’m not taken seriously when I do. But since you are focusing on those three words of my reply, I thought I should expand.

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That’s totally valid! I think when authors make these choices, all criticism is fair game. When it isn’t working, it’s a design flaw. Not attempting to change your mind, just recognizing that when the author takes this on, the player can and should be the judge.

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Gentle Mod reminder. Please be generous when deciding if something is a personal attack when it might also possibly be construed not to be a personal attack.

[!tip] FAQ - The Interactive Fiction Community Forum
The topics discussed here matter to us, and we want you to act as if they matter to you, too. Be respectful of the games, stories, topics, and the people discussing them, even if you disagree with some of what is being said.

Don’t argue about civility on public channels. Don’t defend yourself, don’t defend others, and don’t pile on to someone who made a mistake. If you see a problem, flag it; don’t reply.

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With IF authoring tools in general, you get some tools that expose everything and some tools that are purposefully restrictive. Some authors value presentation over substance and some are vice versa. For me, choosing a font, a colour theme, layout (controlling negative space) for a story is cathartic. I feel like legibility and presentation is an art unto itself and an important part of how I like to express my ideas… and myself, essentially.

Taste is always subjective. This side discussion kind of gave me an idea of letting the user play with a clean version (that doesn’t impose any styling, open to interpreter styling rules)… or a visually themed version. Do you want the theatrical release or the director’s cut? :wink: I wonder if there are some games that have offered both presentation options to readers. I’m not talking about a colour theme shift, I mean like bare-bones versus glitter-bombed.

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It seems I was not being as constructive as I thought was being. Apologies. I really thought I was explaining how it felt to me while also being considerate of the possibility that I might have been over-sensitive - yet wanted to share the way that it struck me, and explain why (EDIT - the consideration is that, there is always a way to word it that ensures no one feels slighted. And I think it’s worth looking for that way).

The more that this goes on, the more that it seems that I am digging myself into a hole. Again, I apologise. I will stop digging. First rule of holes. (but it can be deuced hard to realise you’re in one, at least in time to stop… for example, is my edit above further digging? I don’t think so, but…)

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I avoid web-based parser games out of paranoia that transcripts are being recorded without my consent or knowledge.

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Lol! I always gravitate toward IFcomp GBLORBS for this reason

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I think I understand both interpretations of the word “unwilling”. It can mean “refuse stubbornly” or simply “refuse on one’s own decision.” Or something else… :slight_smile:

I personally am a low level person. I prefer simple technology that’s close to the hardware. So I will always prefer a program like Frotz (or equivalent) over web technology, mouse clicking, etc. Or Z-code ontop of a Linux shell over Z-code ontop of Javascript ontop of HTML ontop of browser ontop TCP/IP ontop of the operating system, if you get what I mean.

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Excellent point. I immediately think of “A Colder Light”, which frustrated me when I tried to play it offline on just my Glulx ‘terp, and not just a Glulx ‘terp, Fabularium - which is not as ideal as, say, Windows Glulxe.

I had to resign myself to this: Jon Ingold did not intend for the game to be played that way, just the offline file. Like Guilded Youth; you can technically run it, but it’s not meant to be. For GY, it’s not even a “bare-bones version”, it actually doesn’t display stuff. “Colder Light” could kinda run, but you can’t save and “undo” didn’t behave properly.

I prefer to have the author make an offline version available, but if they don’t, then playing their version in a hacky way that is not their intended experience is a no-no. I will play the experience the author curates, or not at all.

See how I didn’t say “the experience the author intends”? :wink: If they intend that I play the super glitzy Vorple version but curate/give me a version that runs offline, I’ll play that.

In fact, there’s a Little Match Girl game I noticed was timed, in real time, when played online, but in the offline version time passes traditionally in a turns-based manner. Reever made that version available, so I am happy to play it.

I don’t prefer bare-bones, per se, but I absolutely don’t mind it if it’s the only way to play it offline…

…and if the author makes an offline bare-bones version, I will always prefer it to an online experience that may have… hiccups… when I try it on another device.

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My first year participating in IFComp is what inspired this paranoia. I didn’t initially realize that IFComp quietly records online parser transcripts. It bothered me enough that I got them to add a disclaimer to the website, but it’s still just “fine print,” easily overlooked. I also format all my own games to avoid collecting IFComp transcripts, but most authors gladly accept the transcripts – increasing my general distrust of online parser games!

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