People's Champion Tournament: Round 1, Division 1 (Voting/Discussion)

Welcome to opening round of the People’s Champion Tournament! (See here for details and ground rules. New players can join at any time.)

This post is for Division 1’s first round matchups. All matches were made at random. The following are final scores:

Match 01: Six vs. Alabaster

  • Six
  • Alabaster
0 voters

Match 02: Illuminismo Iniziato vs. Everybody Dies

  • Illuminismo Iniziato
  • Everybody Dies
0 voters

Match 03: Tales from Castle Balderstone vs. A Trial

  • Tales from Castle Balderstone
  • A Trial
0 voters

Match 04: Buggy vs. The Abbey (1993)

  • Buggy
  • The Abbey
0 voters

Match 05: Heretic’s Hope vs. Tapestry

  • Heretic’s Hope
  • Tapestry
0 voters

Match 06: The Bible Retold: Following a Star vs. Submarine Sabotage

  • The Bible Retold: Following a Star
  • Submarine Sabotage
0 voters

Match 07: The Legend of Horse Girl vs. Aisle

  • The Legend of Horse Girl
  • Aisle
0 voters

Match 08: Winter Storm Draco vs. Augmented Fourth

  • Winter Storm Draco
  • Augmented Fourth
0 voters

Vote in the matchups above, and put in a good word for your selections on this thread. Voting will close and Round 1 for Division 2 will begin in two weeks.

Good luck to all contestants!

4 Likes

I’m surprised to see the score run up so quickly on Winter Storm Draco vs. Augmented Fourth. Do any proponents of either contestant care to share some thoughts?

[EDIT: I should add that I liked both of those games and am having trouble deciding, so your advocacy could result in another vote for your pick.]

1 Like

It’s interesting because there’s not really a pattern in how people are matching in the matchups yet, which means that there will be more fun uncertainty in how the results go and should make things more exciting.

Alabaster and Six both use multimedia and have good replay value. Alabaster is much darker and has great detail on a couple of characters, while Six is lighthearted and has cute, interesting details on a variety of characters. I voted for Six because I really enjoyed it (and experimented with getting its sound working online at one point), especially the ‘second playthrough’. I can see the appeal of Alabaster, though (which is currently ahead), especially how broad its possible paths are.

While in the first matchup, the short-playthrough experimental game is winning over the traditional-puzzle exploration game, match #2 is reversed. Illuminismo Iniziato (one of the most popular big unapologetic puzzlers of the last decade) is significantly ahead of the writing-focused, relatively shorter Everybody Dies.

In match 3, Tales from Castle Balderstone is far ahead of A Trial, but I think this is a win-win for both sides. Tales from Castle Balderstone is genuinely creepy in places and a lot of fun, so winning makes sense, but A Trial has a unique writing style and has been kind of neglected over the years. So, win or lose, getting a lot of new players to try A Trial and experience its creativity is great for whoever nominated it. This is another instance of a longer, more puzzly game winning out over a shorter one. (although A Trial isn’t inherently super puzzly, just relatively so in this poll).

I won’t say much on Buggy vs Abbey since I’m one of the authors, but I will say that this reverses the trend, since right now Buggy is ahead but Abbey is at least 20x longer (possibly 100x longer).

In matchup 5, Heretic’s Hope is a choice-based game that is soundly ahead of the parser game Tapestry. Both are games that focus on morality and have a lush, stained-glass kind of atmosphere. Heretic’s Hope is very weighty, and has numerous places to go, people to talk to, and great art, with excellent worldbuilding. Tapestry has a lot of symbolism and some wonderful character development. I’d like to imagine that both authors would like each other’s work.

Match 6 is going well for Garry Francis, whose game currently has all the votes. Submarine Sabotage is a puzzly parser game that is substantial but isn’t too hard or too long. The Bible Retold: Following a Star still benefits from attention, like A Trial, since its part of a quirky and unusual parser game series that hasn’t gotten a lot of attention in recent years.

Math 7 and Match 8 is another instance where a short puzzleless game is doing well against a long and puzzly parser game. Aisle is one of the most famous IF games out there but has provoked strong reactions for and against it in the past. It’s firmly seated in real life but explores the edges of what’s acceptable in society (depending on your choices). The Legend of Horse Girl on the other hand is wild and exaggerated with extreme characters and is heavy on dark comedy.

But the final match flips the trend back. Augmented Fourth is firmly ahead, a puzzly parser game that has received steady attention for the last 25 years as a satisfying and very funny adventure game. Winter Storm Draco (which I voted for) is much briefer but has a lot of clever ideas. Both subvert expectations, both use narrative devices in a pleasing way. I just thought Winter Storm Draco was more polished and unique. For me, Augmented Fourth would be like a big chocolate cake from a good grocery store, while Winter Storm Draco would be a small fancy box of chocolates. Both are great, and one provides (to me) some satisfaction for a longer time while the other is really fun for a short time.

So in summary, so far there aren’t any clear deciding lines on ‘this always wins’ or ‘that always wins’ like there were in past competitions. Votes are going both ways in the following categories:
-short vs long
-parser vs choice
-comedy vs drama
-polished vs unpolished (this may be up to debate. I’d say winter storm draco is more polished than Augmented Fourth and that Six is more polished than Alabaster, but others may disagree)

6 Likes

I’ll put in a good word for The Legend of Horse Girl.

The IFDB summary definitely caught my interest, but I had never played it until it was selected in the lottery. The last lines of the pre-banner text made me laugh out loud. I thought the prose had a compelling style and evocative imagery that faintly brought to mind the world of Grim Fandango. It wasn’t long until I was hooked by the unusual characters, the trope-bending setting, and the laconic but single-minded protagonist.

There were fun surprises in the worldbuilding, which is metered out at a well-considered rate that keeps one unsure of what to expect next while still feeling on familiar ground, and mixed among the oddities presented is the kind of low-key humor that goes well with an old-school style “light puzzler” (i.e. one in which the puzzles mostly serve for story pacing rather than to be a genuine intellectual challenge). It wasn’t a grand drama, but I don’t think it tries to be that, and it was a lot of fun.

Horse Girl provides about an afternoon or evening’s worth of play if you’re taking your time with it or get a little stuck. I can’t think of any puzzles that had a particularly clever or deep design, so consulting a walkthrough (as I did once or twice) shouldn’t ruin the experience.

EDIT: I will note that the implementation quality is not at the same level as the writing, and unfortunately it does seem possible to get into an unwinnable state, though I think the design intent was “merciful” on the Zarfian scale. For that reason, you should probably save your game from time to time. I thought it was pretty obvious when something wasn’t working correctly (e.g. producing inappropriate responses for the situation), so I don’t think you have to worry about being locked out of a win and not knowing it.

5 Likes

I’d agree that Six feels more polished than Alabaster. I loved the general tone and characters and story, but the execution was not quite smooth? Several times I phrased questions in what I thought was a natural way / the structure expected by the parser, but it wasn’t accepted, so after a while I stuck more closely to the given list of topics. Except the list spoiled me somewhat, it would have things I hadn’t yet thought of myself, so at times it felt like I was more guided by the game than naturally figuring stuff out. Whereas Six just felt smoother and more enjoyable to play.

Similar thoughts on The Abbey vs Buggy — I really loved the setting of The Abbey, exploring all the buildings and trying to map everything out (very glad I’m doing this digitally so I can move rooms around and colour-code, respect to people who draw maps on paper but I cannot). Got a few of the puzzles, but it sooned turned into wandering around trying things that kept not working. Looked up the walkthrough, wow I could not have figured out much of that on my own. Interesting experience just from the perspective of trying a game made before I was born, though.

Buggy was just really fun! Great flow of “ooh what if” then having that satisfied, made me laugh out loud several times.

(I have played exactly 0 games in this round before this tournament, thank you @otistdog for organising! turns out my motivation to play IF increases dramatically when there is a deadline)

5 Likes

The same is true for me. I’ve played more games due to this event and FIFP than I have for many years. (I suspect that it’s true for several others, as well – @rovarsson said something similar.)

Thanks for signing up, and thanks especially for starting the ball rolling on discussing the entries. Promoting play and discussion is the whole point of the event!


On the topic of discussion: I want to remind everyone that the rules have changed since the Free IF Playoffs. Specifically, the “positive commentary only” rule has been lifted because several people indicated that they thought it had a chilling effect. While forum rules still apply, and I’ve been granted moderator privileges for this subforum, my take is that so long as negativity towards people is avoided, the more said, the better.

I would love to see more from fans about their thoughts on particular games, especially Winter Storm Draco and Augmented Fourth at the moment. I played Fourth some years ago and found it to be pretty much the definition of “polish” (to the point of paradoxically interfering with playability), and its silly fantasy style is a good example of old-school charm, but Draco was new to me, and I found it to be surprisingly fun and well-paced. (The “swordfight” sequence in particular was neat; the battle meter and three-letter commands were great inventive touches.) Since they both met my definition of fun, I’m looking for some positive points about one or the other (or perhaps shortcomings that I’ve overlooked) to break the tie.

4 Likes

I first played Augmented Fourth right after the Enchanter trilogy when I was looking for games in the same vein that would scratch the same itch. I think it definitely fits in that tradition (though with the sillier tone of Sorcerer rather than the more serious Enchanter and Spellbreaker), but it had some of the same issues as those games.

For example, the vault puzzle and the moving-rocks puzzle in Spellbreaker are clever in isolation, but require some absurd stretches to crowbar them into the gameplay and world model, to the point that they tend to require a walkthrough—not because the puzzle itself is difficult, but because the rules of the puzzle are different from the rules of everything else in the game, and the game struggles to explain why gameplay has suddenly changed in this one area. That’s how I felt about the letter maze in Augmented Fourth, and that’s where I started relying on a walkthrough.

Other times, it’s clear that it’s parodying common issues in those games, like the Literal Music that does such an absurdly specific thing that it’s clear it’ll never be useful for more than one obstacle. But it still feels like a bit of a letdown, parodied or not. I think it would have been a much funnier and more satisfying parody if it gave you an absurdly specific spell that then gets used for a completely different purpose, as a twist on the Enchanter games giving you what seem to be very general-purpose spells that are actually just keys to open one specific lock.

Most notably, though, I found the endgame somewhat of a letdown. Enchanter and Sorcerer each end with the most difficult puzzle in the game, which makes you feel clever for solving it, followed by a little “victory lap” where you use several of your hard-won spells in succession to deal with a seemingly impossible threat. (Spellbreaker doesn’t do this, but has weighty drama in spades to make up for it.) Augmented Fourth, though, just teleports you to the endgame once you’ve solved enough puzzles, gives you an entirely new set of spells, and then asks you to choose the right one to deal with each threat until you win. It’s funny, but it doesn’t feel satisfying the same way that Enchanter and Sorcerer did, because those spells were just handed to me by a wizard, they weren’t the rewards from hours of earlier puzzle-solving. There’s no functional difference, but there’s a big aesthetic difference between “now I get to use that SWANZO or GUNCHO or GONDAR spell I fought so hard for and have been saving all this time!” and “which of the four new spells I’ve been given is the solution to this threat?”.

This isn’t to say Augmented Fourth is a bad game by any means! But you already mentioned the polish, charm, and humor, so I figured it would be more useful to focus on the negatives. But as you said, it’s an extremely polished game, a loving parody of the old-school Zorkian aesthetic, and it was definitely an influence on Scroll Thief (both in trying to emulate its positives and trying to avoid its negatives).

4 Likes

Augmented Fourth is a great and very well realized game (which I hadn’t played before this event), but the spell mechanic and setting isn’t my favorite in IF (and the endgame didn’t quite work for me either). I voted for Winter Storm Draco, which I’d played before and love; it’s a focused experience that does a lot of innovative stuff both in storytelling and mechanics. It’s pretty linear, but I have a soft spot for Veeder’s flavor of linearity - maybe I should check out his spell game (which I think is Skuga Lake) and see if I like his spin on the concept.

3 Likes

Last-Minute Magic is another Veeder game about spellcasting; I think it might be in the same setting as Visit Skuga Lake, but I haven’t played that one so I’m not sure.

1 Like

Yeah, the magic system in Last-Minute Magic is identical in concept to the Visit Skuga Lake (pendants and jewels), just with a different set of items and different puzzle style.

2 Likes

I haven’t played Visit Skuga Lake either but Last-Minute Magic does explicitly say that it’s in the same universe.

Personally when playing Last-Minute Magic, between the short time limit getting in the way of experimentation and the extremely minimal explanation of how the magic works, I had the strong impression that I was meant to have played Visit Skuga Lake first and gotten a grasp of the basics of the magic system from there so that I could apply that knowledge to Last-Minute Magic right off the bat and focus on solving this particular set of puzzles. It seems like not everyone had that issue with it, but in case it’s helpful in terms of figuring out what to play first I thought I’d mention it.

1 Like

For those trying The Abbey, I put together a partial map of the beginning areas:

partial map for *The Abbey* by Art LaFrana

Some quick polls:

Do you have an IFDB account?
  • Yes
  • No
  • What’s IFDB?
0 voters
If you have an account, do you use it to record that you’ve played games (with the “I’ve played it” checkbox)?
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters
If you have an IFDB account, do you use it to rate games that you’ve played?
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters

I voted for Augmented Fourth over Winter Storm Draco. Admittedly, I am a little biased (being simultaneously a classical musician and a pun enthusiast) but I think almost anyone who knows anything about music will find the puzzles and jokes at least a little funny. It suffers slightly from the mismatch between the gameplay difficulty and the wacky, goofy tone that a lot of old-school '90s and 2000’s puzzlers have, but it’s very entertaining nonetheless.

In comparison, I saw nothing special about Winter Storm Draco, especially compared to Veeder’s three other entries in this tournament. I am curious to hear what other people have to say, though. It’s interesting that @tvil specifically mentioned it being “focused” - my main issue with the game was that it was unfocused.

2 Likes

FYI: This segment’s contestants were nominated by the following people (in alphabetical order):

  • AmandaB (x2)
  • CMG (x2)
  • dfranke
  • Dissolved
  • Hellzon
  • Hidnook
  • Joey (x2)
  • mathbrush
  • Morningstar
  • rovarsson (x2)

… plus others who submitted their nominations by PM (but can claim their nominees publicly if they like). Special thanks to all of you for this great mix.

Now’s your chance to speak up for your nominees – help us see what you saw in them!

1 Like

Welcome to new fan Adam_S, who has signed up today. That’s 37 registered fans, which makes almost 300 votes possible for each 8-game heat!

3 Likes

I’ve been trying The Bible Retold: Following a Star, and it’s a very different from what I would have expected. I haven’t made a lot of progress, but so far it seems like a classic old school comedy puzzler that just happens to be set in a Biblical time and place. The implementation quality is surprisingly high, too, with lots of detail touches for an Inform 6 game (though there are occasional hiccups). Interesting that it uses the Onyx Ring library.

Thanks to @rovarsson for nominating it!

2 Likes

Have you tried walking into a wall or messing around while on a camel? It’s implementation details like those that made me appreciate this game just that extra bit above your average run-of-the-mill puzzler.

Some quick polls:

Which game(s) in this segment had you already played before the tournament?
  • The Abbey
  • Aisle
  • Alabaster
  • Augmented Fourth
  • The Bible Retold: Following a Star
  • Buggy
  • Everybody Dies
  • Heretic’s Hope
  • Illuminismo Iniziato
  • The Legend of Horse Girl
  • Six
  • Submarine Sabotage
  • Tapestry
  • Tales from Castle Balderstone
  • A Trial
  • Winter Storm Draco
0 voters
Which game(s) in this segment have you played since the start of the tournament (including the “Quiet Play” period)?
  • The Abbey
  • Aisle
  • Alabaster
  • Augmented Fourth
  • The Bible Retold: Following a Star
  • Buggy
  • Everybody Dies
  • Heretic’s Hope
  • Illuminismo Iniziato
  • The Legend of Horse Girl
  • Six
  • Submarine Sabotage
  • Tapestry
  • Tales from Castle Balderstone
  • A Trial
  • Winter Storm Draco
0 voters
Which game(s) in this segment do you still intend to play before the end of the segment on Saturday March 22nd?
  • The Abbey
  • Aisle
  • Alabaster
  • Augmented Fourth
  • The Bible Retold: Following a Star
  • Buggy
  • Everybody Dies
  • Heretic’s Hope
  • Illuminismo Iniziato
  • The Legend of Horse Girl
  • Six
  • Submarine Sabotage
  • Tapestry
  • Tales from Castle Balderstone
  • A Trial
  • Winter Storm Draco
0 voters

(Note that the preceding poll regarding intentions will be closed around the end of Saturday March 15th.)

1 Like

This is the last day for voting on this segment. In the meantime, some quick polls:

For matches in which I have voted, in most cases I have…
  • completed both games
  • completed one game and played part of the other
  • played part of both games
0 voters
The shortest time that I have spent with an uncompleted game is…
  • less than an hour
  • one to two hours
  • more than two hours
0 voters
For how many games that you have played in this segment have you made use of hints?
  • none
  • 1 - 3
  • 4 - 8
  • 9+
0 voters
For how many games that you have played in this segment have you consulted a walkthrough?
  • none
  • 1 - 3
  • 4 - 8
  • 9+
0 voters