Parser IF (was Do we really need radically new IF tools?)

Where’s the parser?

Enough of this “choice” nonsense.

I want my parser.

You guys have ruined IF forever. And now people who never played an actual IF game in their lives are trying to tell me what “IF is about” with their new authoring system.


Per the Code of Conduct, embraces a broad definition of interactive fiction, which includes choice-based games as well as parser-based games. Discussions about choice-based games being “not real IF” are not welcome here. Also, (even if they were welcome) (which they aren’t), they’re definitely off topic in this thread.

Let’s focus please on talionar’s question about whether or not people would find this specific IF platform design helpful, and (derived from the subject line) what might be lacking from existing tools.

Point taken. I want to apologize for my “+1”’ post. Not funny and doen’t answer the OP’s question.

I have plenty of things to say about what just happened, but the CoC prevents me, and I don’t want it pointed at me either like a rolled-up newspaper at a dog that whizzed on the carpet.

Ah, what the hell. I at least have to say this.

Two posts in a thread in one of the least active boards in the forum, one of which is “+1”, and you don’t know why anyone would want to come to this forum and participate in IF?

Good thing no one did that then, huh?

This was done because choice games are not IF.

You can ban me if you want, but you will never change my opinion on the matter or enforce yours on me. I’m sorry. Not having separate sections for the two genres in the forum is a bad idea.

I like choice games, I’ve written quite a few over the years and I’ve purchased them from Choice of Games, but at the end of the day I don’t really see them as IF. Why is it such a big deal how they’re classed?

Mods, I can appreciate you not liking this because it’s veering off-topic, but I’ve seldom seen this point of view expressed in such a constructive, discussion-encouraging way.

That’s a good question, which can be reversed. Why is it such a big deal to prevent discussion on how they’re classed?

I’ll give an analogy which describes how I feel about the issue. Choice games are like an old friend who stays in your apartment for a while. You don’t hate the person or anything, they’re an old friend. But as weeks and then months go by, and they take over your space, the urge to tell them to get out and find their own place gets stronger. It’s not like choice games are not welcome in general; they’re not welcome if they take over your identity.

Having separate sections would solve this nicely, and having a forum rule that prevents this discussion from even happening doesn’t sit well at all with me. When we moved from usenet to this forum, this was done in order to gain a defense against trolling, not to put arbitrary rules in place. If I want to claim that choice games are not IF, I should have the freedom to do so. If however I do so in the forum section for choice games, then I should be reprimanded, as that would be trolling. But there is no choice-games-specific forum section…

I’ve honestly never been fussed one way or the other as to how choice or IF games are classed. On a personal note, I consider “real IF” to be parser games, but I don’t lie awake at night worrying over whether X game is IF or choice. What does it really matter? I like both and play both and write both.

That said, it makes sense to have separate sections of the forum for IF and choice games as they’re different kinds of games. On one level, films and TV shows are the same basic thing - a group of actors acting out a story on screen - but if you go to an entertainment forum, you don’t get them together under same heading.

You can’t just have two sections - at least seven new boards would be required, and there is not enough traffic, or community pressure, to warrant it. And lots people are making hybrid choice + parser systems now, would you want another seven boards for those?!

There is already a Choice based IF development board you are free to ignore. This board is for “Interpreters, Add-Ons, and Tools” and will not be split in two. Deal with that how you like.

(re thread split, thank you, mod. Great idea)

(EDIT - Dannii posted while I was writing, but I guess it’s still valid)

To use your analogy, RealNC, I wonder whether it’d be possible for both parties to realise the house has become too small for either. Maybe they could still live together if they got a bigger place with a common room for interactions but their own private space as well; in the places where they converge they can have a blast of a time, and in the places where they don’t, they can go about their business without being bothered by someone else’s canon.

I mean, every IFComp there’s grievance about this from choice people as well, so this is affecting people from both sides. I don’t think we need full-on segregation, but the acceptance of the need for a common space while still retaining the two separate aspects of the genre/medium/whatever-it-is-IF-is-these-days would be nice. If that were to be accepted as sensible, we could then see into how it could be implemented.

Then again, it seems like it’s not necessary - this place has been going along pretty smoothly. On the surface. Yet this particular discussion was heating up very quickly, for little reason. I may be totally wrong, but that seems to be a symptom of something that still isn’t properly resolved.

EDIT 2 - Also, this happened because someone needed to vent. That’s normal enough. Again, if someone vents and things get heated, then we’re DEFINITELY in too crowded a space and need more room.

EDIT 3 - In the interest of looking for healthy solutions benefitial for all, I should mention that exists. It definitely has a preference for parser IF, so it’s place where people can go if they need some time away from the Choice roommate. Similarly, I’m sure Choice people have their own forums.

Ergo, maybe the solution is to allow some overlap but to make fuller use of these alternative forums.

That does mean this whole place gets split in three, but come on, isn’t that what’s happening already? IntFic, Intfiction and Euphoria are three separate places with distinct and often non-overlapping points of view. Might as well embrace that, maybe…

I’m not sure I stumbled across that one before. Thanks!

I think it would be a good idea if there was a “Related resources” (or similar) box at the end of the main page that lists IF-related places on the internet, like, and (and whatever else there is.)