Let's Translate: Lighan ses Lion by Andrew Plotkin

Sure, but I don’t get the impression that there was a deliberate attempt to consistently mimic English, so much as it just being the result of being written by “a native English speaker who’s not a linguist.” There definitely are deliberate departures from English (e.g. adjectives following nouns), so who knows which things Zarf may have randomly picked up on as English-isms that could be changed?

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Yeah, that/which are fairly interchangeable.

Do you have a guess what that POLVAM passage is about? Something about “out which it came”?

Actually, looking at the transcript, doesn’t “from” fit PISE in all of its uses?

That frees “out” for plain PIS. (howls out a spell that/which…)

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I was going to post about SISO SEDAN, but naturally @Draconis already has :smiley:

put paste on weapon
You rub the paste poisonous on your sword. For good measure, you poison the axe and knife too.

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I agree, “from” seems to fit better for PISE, and reading in that light also increases my confidence that EPLEV is “away.”

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Notably, this does require “good measure” to be Adj + Noun, but since we also see SEDANI with the adjective-forming suffix, it seems like SEDAN has to be a noun there anyway.

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Is there any chance the dwarf speaks in a completely separate language that the PC doesn’t understand?

The dwarf’s dialog seems to use very different vocabulary and grammar than the rest of the transcript. But also certain patterns suggest themselves, e.g. STI = you, FI = me/I, FO = my.

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Oh, that’s a great idea, I hadn’t thought of that! It does look like none of the DOOR’s dialogue words appear anywhere else in the transcript.

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FI appears once outside of the dialogue, but I guess it could be a coincidence.

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FI appears at the start of a sentence in 4 out of 6 uses as well, both and in and out of the DOOR’s speech

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Right, my money’s on coincidence. Outside dialog, the FI looks like a preposition or maybe conjunction. Inside, I would be shocked if it’s not a pronoun.

Just to clarify, the dwarf is DOOR, right?

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FYI, here is my current Lionese dictionary. I’ve grouped nouns/verbs/adjectives/adverbs all together, and also included all attested inflections of all words, in the hopes of identifying patterns.

Regular type are words in the Official translation web page. Boldface are additional guesses (from myself and others in this thread) that I think are more likely than not correct. Question marks indicate uncertainty; strikeouts I think are suspect or outright wrong.

Nouns, Verbs, Adjectives, Adverbs:

ACEBA: (n) number
ACROT: (v) make
ANDI: (adj) cruel
ASKIOSI: (adj) thankful
ASKIOSY: (n) thanks
AUSH: (adv and n) north(/south?)
AUSHTARNH: (adv) northeast(/etc?)
BANT: (n) beta
BI: (v) is
BIEN: (p.p.) has; (p.p) was
BISYLEN: (p.p.) moved
BOOK: (n) button
BORYL: (n) maze
BROX: (n) voice
BUELY: (n) eyes
CALAM: (v) twist
CALAMI: (adj) twisty
CORRAN: (n) iron? or steel?
CORSET: (n) dragon
CROIM: (v) cover
CROIMEN: (p.p.) covered
CROIMO: (p.pr.) covering
CROLIMEN: (p.p.) crusted
CROMNE: (v) uncover
DOOR: (n) dwarf
DOORY: (n) dwarves
DRESS: (v) press
DRINK: (n) switch; (v) switch
DROP: (adv) right(/left?)
DURII: (adv) also
DWEN: (v) mean
EAST: (n) axe
EAT: (adv) down
EGG: (v) take
EGGEN: (p.p.) taken
EGGO: (p.pr.) taking
EPLEV: (adv) away
ERIC: (n) top
ERCI: (v) stand; (n) stand
ERCIO: (p.pr.) standing
EYE: (v) put?
FALNO: (p.pr.) containing
FAN: (v) say
FIRE: (n) all
FIRDAN: (n) mistake(s?)
FIRPAY: (n) everything
FIRPSA: (adv) enough
FNOR: (v) rub?
FOIT: (n) light
FOONI: (adj) hollow
FOUCO: (v) swing
GA: (v) do
GORNY: (n) lungs
GRALAM: (n) circle
HALO: (v) should
HELP: (v) read
HOBII: (adv) really?
HOREX: (adj) complex?
HRAL: (v) can
HRALNE: (v) cannot
ILSH: (adv and n) south(/north?)
ILSHTARNH: (adv) southeast(/etc?)
ILSHZERNH: (adv) southwest(/etc?)
ITH: (adj) narrow
ITHI: (v) narrow
JANAI: (adj) difficult
JEPY: (n) shares?
KAWK: (v) cough
KENOL: (v) own
KOOBAR: (adj) possible
KOUNAM: (v) want?
KORB: (n) rank
KUI: (adj) few
KYUAY: (n) testers
LERUL: (n) poison?
LERULI: (adj) poisonous?
LERUO: (v) poison?
LION: (n) gold
LIGHAN: (v) grab
LIGHT: (v) get
LOID: (n) game
LOOVANY: (n) players
MAN: (n) stock?
MEFALO: (p.pr.) filling
MILEGO: (p.pr.) surrounding
MIRROR: (n) paste?
MOLK: (n) scale
MOOSE: (n) time
MORVONT: (n) document?
MORVONTY: (n) documents?
MUGRENT: (v) restore
NABIMY: (n) hands
NASABERG: (n) library
NEAT: (adv) up
NEGLONEN: (p.p.) saved
NIRE: (adj) any
NITH: (adj) wide
NOLO: (p.pr.?) are carrying
OAWUL: (n) howl
ORHELN: (n) path?
OXOL: (v) see
PACKAGE: (adj) a color?
PACSILM: (n) a PACKAGE gem?
PICKOBE: (v) crush?
PLA: (adv) here
PLAY: (v) enter?
PLOR: (v) swirl?
PLOVER: (n) sword
POLISH: (n) mushroom
POLISHY: (n) mushrooms
PRAY: (v) give
PREL: (adj) alike; ((prep.) like)
PRESENT: (v) revolve?
PRON: (v) cast
PRONO: (p.pr.) casting
PUT: (v) throw
RACT: (v) block
RAX: (n) wall
RAXY: (n) walls
REMP: (v) need
SABRA: (v) die
SABRAI: (adj) deadly
SABRAL: (adj) fatal
SATRAG : (adj) open
SATRAGII: (adv) openly
SEAG: (v) burn
SEAGO: (p.pr.) burning
SEAT: (n) fire?
SEATI: (adj) fiery?
SEATO: (p.pr.) flaming?
SEATY: (n) fires?
SEDAN: (n) measure?
SEUL: (adj) serial
SHAIMOO: (p.pr.) stinging?
SHIFAN: (v) shout?
SHISYLE: (v) hurry?; run?
SIKII: (adv) nearly
SILEMI: (adj) crystal
SILEMY: (n) crystals
SILMY: (n) jewels
SIOM: (v) stop?
SIPASANO: (p.pr.) understanding
SIPASS: (n) mind
SISO: (adj) good?
SLE: (n) key
SLUNT: (v) miss
SNOOSTO: (p.pr.) kissing?
SOGEN: (p.p) tried
SOGO: (p.pr.) trying
STAND: (n) knife
STATIM: (v) escape
STATION: (v) exit
STATIONY: (n) exits
STOAB: (v) think
STOP: (n) score
STOPO: (p.pr.) scoring
STORN: (v) ache?
STRING: (n) door
SUDNOGIL: (n) certificate?
SWING: (v) to ask
SWINGO: (p.pr.) asking
SYLN: (v) lead; (v) go
TA: (adj) one
TANT: (adj and adv) first
TARNH: (n) east
THALNY: (n) points
THINAK: (v) inform
THINK: (n) info
TOBII: (adv) too
TOKEN: (adj) filled
TUNY: (n) bars
TUNS: (n) bar
TURN: (n) smoke
UNDO: (n) weapon
UNDOY: (n) weapons
UP: (adj) a color?
UPUSILM: (n) a UP gem?
VAS: (adj) bad
VASI: (adj) nasty
VLOP: (adv) left(/right?)
VOR: (adj) half?
VUPRABEN: (n) bearer?
WAKE: (n) machinery?
WATCH: (adj) amusing
WAVE: (n) spell
WEA: (adj) small
WIRNO: (p.pr.) providing
WIVLE: (v) start
WIVLENT: (v) restart
WOROL: (adj) big
WOROLOB: (adj) huge
XOL: (v) look
XOLO: (p.pr.) looking
XOLNE: (v) doesn’t look
XYZZY: (v) quit
YARCO: (n) warning
YCLE: (p.p.?) called
YOSO: (v) type
ZERNH: (adv and n): west/(east?)
ZERNHI: (adj) western/(eastern?)
ZILFAN: (n) passage
ZILFANY: (n) passages
ZOON: (n) lair?
ZROPSE: (n) release
ZRBLM: (v) remove

Pronouns:

KAOL: my

ZAO: you
ZAOL: your
ZAOLB: your own

VA: it
VAOB: itself

VALY: their

Prepositions:

EL: by
FUS: as/while
KA: at
KNIFE: about
MILGA: around
PASE: in
PE: of
PIS: out
PISE: out of; from
PREL: like
RAU: for
RO: to
SIK: near
SWITCH: with
SWINTH: without

Onomatopoeia:

IA, IAI, TLAC, TLOC, GLENC, GLANC

Misc:

E: a
-EL: (possessive marker)
DUS: that/which
GU-: (interrogative marker)
KURI: some
OIN: but
ON: and
OS: or
NER: not
SE: the
SEIS: this
SES: that
VE-: (infinitive marker)

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Could “CRELN” be “break”? Then we would have the axe head breaking out of its handle, and

a pacsilm worol firpsa to creln your firf on
a gemstone big enough to break(stub) your toe on

Makes more sense to me than hanging something on a gemstone.

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Almost all of your bolded entries are ones that I’m intending to add to the translation as soon as I get a moment - I’ve been juggling work and childcare and although I can post to the forum in odd moments from my phone, I need time to actually sit down at my computer to do the updates. Hopefully soon!

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Do you have a list of the inflections themselves?

There is something strange going on with the fight against the dragon: apparently the “poison” causes smoke to rise from the dragon’s wounds, and the poison itself catches fire? Maybe the poison is actually something else? Or the smoke/fire is something else?

I’m definitely leaning towards the poison being something more like oil. It can also be a noun and a verb. Acid would also have the same effect, but “you acid the EAST” makes a lot less sense.

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A cameo by So Far’s oil pods then, maybe?

I think the sensation of being stabbed with a poisoned weapon could reasonably be described as “burning” even if actual flames aren’t involved. I’m not totally happy with the word choices here, but I think this is something like:

The QUERL twists around, trying to GORD KA the LERUL SEATO
The tail twists around, trying to gouge at the burning poison

Or if we think that GORD is related to GORNY, then even:

The head twists around, trying to breathe at the burning poison

(Edit: and I think smoke coming out of a dragon’s wound is a perfectly good image even if no poison were involved at all. They’re full of fire!)

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