How to write good room descriptions?

Yeah, don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t being ironic or anything - I really found it amusing how different our experience was. :slight_smile: It really nails home that what can be self-evident even about the most basic premises of IF isn’t necessarily the same for the next person, and that’s always worth being reminded of.

Ditto. Magnetic north? Couldn’t find it to save my life. Nautical directions? I get totally messed up. X/Y axes on a grid? Straightforward and obvious. But that does require that the player is used - as so many of us are - to the standard IF mapping paradigm.

I often lump directions together that way. I find it natural. In fact, I specifically missed the ability of doing that in A Colder Light.

This is exactly what ADRIFT games do. In any game using ADRIFT 5 you only need to click on that location on the automatically generated map and it will pathfind the quickest route to get there, generating the movement commands and printing the description of each of the locations you pass through.

This is what makes pathfinding systems tricky. It’s relatively easy to implement GO TO KITCHEN (there’s at least one example in the Inform Recipe Book). It’s a bit more complicated to make sure that time passes the same way as if you had typed N. E. NW. N. If something interesting happens along the route, or even if a description has changed since the last time a room was visited, do you notify the player? Do you pause and give them the option to stop or keep going? Some events would stop the player regardless: you have to make sure the game knows what those events are and reacts accordingly.

It also profoundly affects how you design the map: Inform’s built-in pathfinding assumes no connections more complicated than a standard two-way door. Anything beyond that becomes a design problem you have to solve. Consider an elevator implemented as an enterable container, which moves between two parts of the map when a button is pushed. How does your pathfinding routine handle GO TO PENTHOUSE when you’re in the lobby, and vise versa?

These things can be handled, certainly, but it’s something you have to think about if it’s in your game.

I have found a site which gives detailed descriptions of photographs of various locations. One example:

Hope you can use it. I find this really inspirering when I write my own room descriptions.

Interior photograph descriptions: (680 results)
digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/searc … /conn/and/

Exterior photograph descriptions: (3565 results)
digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/searc … /conn/and/

Nice!

Does anyone have good tips for writing code that browses pages like that to abstract the text? I mean on a basic level of what code can you use to say “Go to a random page here and find the text in the description code”? It seems like it’d be a great resource for a procedural photograph description generator.

I haven’t used either of these, but:
crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/ seems to be the standard answer for scraping text from webpages in a structured way. (Fun fact: the author of this library also writes IF)

kimonolabs.com/ has a clicky interface for structuring the data and a video with perky music

If you are using Linux or Mac OSX and are not afraid of the terminal, it could be “easy” (well, for a certain definition of “easy” that requires you to be knowledgeable about some arcane geekery :slight_smile:. For example, the following command returns all the photo descriptions on page one of the first link:

wget -q -O - http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/search/collection/p15799coll65/searchterm/interior/field/all/mode/all/conn/and/ | grep "img class" | grep "alt=" | perl -pe 's/^.*alt="//' | cut -d '"' -f 1

Of course, this requires you to learn about the command line and a few useful tools to parse the page (grep, perl, cut, awk…). It is probably easier than learning a programming language though. Nothing is easy :stuck_out_tongue:

Beautiful Soup is what I am using for this: https://intfiction.org/t/metasite-for-submitting-to-all-three-major-community-sites/8138/10

My main difficulty so far is that I’m not sure of the best way to get feedback on Python code, so I am going solely by what seems to work, and learning via search engine.

Thanks for the suggestions! I figured if I want to do this kind of stuff I’d have to learn some Python or, um, that other stuff sometime, so it might be time to start. Gulp. Maybe I can ask my friends in the computer science department for help.

Morlock, I just cut and pasted that into my terminal window (not on my home directory, for whatever that’s worth) and it said “-bash: wget: command not found”. Do I need to install some other stuff? I have a Mac running OS 10.7 for whatever that’s worth.

I’m finding it helpful to mentally translate some things into Inform 7. For instance, it seems like

for x in y

in Python is equivalent to

repeat with x running through y

in Inform.

Oh, this is a nice cheat sheet: cogsci.rpi.edu/~destem/gamedev/python.pdf

You need to install wget. I’m not big on Macs (even less on Windows) so I don’t know what the best course is for you to get wget but also all the other basic tools that come pre-packaged with most Linux distributions but apparently not with Macs. I think however what is recommended now is to use XCode:

itunes.apple.com/ca/app/xcode/i … mpt=uo%3D4

If you install this, it brings most useful development tools (compilers, UNIX command line tools…) but I can’t guaranty this will enough.

Beautiful Soup is tailored made for your task, but then you need to learn a lot also (python programming, the beautiful soup module, html…) to use it properly. If you have friends in CS, AND they have a lot of free time for technical supporting you, then MAYBE you will get to do something useful with Beautiful Soup. I program in Python every week, can create modules, invent and implement efficient algorithms, (but I don’t do a lot of web stuff) and I find it difficult to use… Your mileage may vary and your friends may be your greatest assets.

Try installing XCode and tell us if it worked.

Looks like I’d have to register as a developer to get a version of xcode that’s compatible with my current OS. Apparently I can get wget straight from its page if I want to install it using command-line tools.

Registering as a developer is free.

There’s a “command-line development tools” package on the Apple download site somewhere. I don’t remember if it requires registering, but it might be less hassle than the full Xcode download (which is large).

This may be better advice and from someone who obviously knows more about macs than I do :slight_smile:

Do perl and awk not count as programming languages?

Sure, but adding perl -pe 's/replace this/by that/' hardly counts as programming IMHO. It is basic search and replace. Same with awk '{print $2}' , which prints column 2. Compare this to the python script you need to write to get the same result as my oneliner. I consider that the onliner is more versatile and fast to hack then writing a program. It may be the opposite for some people, so in the end it is a question of finding an approach that fits us. I always try to fix problems in bash (the terminal language) first and then proceed to Python or some other specialized programs. I LOVE Python, but bash is more time efficient for some problems.

Personally, I have always found “you can see,” to be best used sparingly because it is a phrase that is removing me from being in the moment. I think smoother transitions are straight descriptions because most IF describes what you can see because 5/10 “You” are the one whose eyes we see through in some form, even in stories like Urkel the Black Dragon(I hope I got the name right).

I was inspired by your post and wrote a Python program to do this:
github.com/blackredbuttonbox/picture-descriptor

It uses a pretty “dumb” approach of just generating a random item ID, then visiting that page and scraping the text, so it can’t filter by keyword or anything. But it works okay and was fun to write.

This is a very cool (and educational) one-liner, but the descriptions in the alt text are much shorter than the long descriptions you get when you mouseover the images or visit the item page. You could probably still do it by grepping and filtering the right attribute, but the tricky part is that some of the long descriptions have a ton of nested links, so I was quite happy for Beautiful Soup’s ability to strip all that HTML out for me.

Thanks!

Excellent work! I have never gotten into Python, so thanks for also supplying an .exe version.