Can we talk about the author muzzle rule?

As you said, it’s no problem to slap down some 4s and 3s on other games. It’d be easy to discard any ballot that has one ten and fifty-two ones, (or four ones), but harder to detect otherwise.

Actually this is the first year where authors ARE allowed to promote the comp - We can post anywhere about the comp and say we have a game in it and direct people to the comp, we just can’t specifically tell people to vote for us. That’s new! I don’t see authors leading an IFComp2015 parade on twitter even though we can!

As stated, it doesn’t take a huge vote flood to affect the comp. If you have a snapchat following of 10 people, you could significantly boost your game and/or punish others.

I actually approve of the muzzle. This prevents people who are talking about the games and rating them in public from being put in a situation where they need to directly make account to an author for their vote, or authors from arguing about their scores and reviews publicly.

It also allows the authors to vent about a review without repercussions from the author.

I think it probably feels more restrictive this year due to the number of authors - usually on the private board there are 35 entries and maybe 10 or so active participants in the private forum. There’s so many people we’ve built a huge circus of IFComp entry info that a lot of people won’t see.

Sorry if this has been covered, I skimmed the whole thread again and I couldn’t find it -

When did the rule first appear? Why did it appear?

If the reasons that caused it to appear are no longer a concern, then it would make sense for the rule to disappear. Everything else is rethoric, makes for good conversations, nice arguments, gets people thinking about things, it’s all good. But it boils down to this - WHY did the rule appear in the first place, and DOES IT STILL MAKE SENSE for it to exist.

I remember Zombie Exodus very well, and we absolutely don’t want that to happen, but I’m not sure that that’s entirely related to this rule… is it?

What happened with Zombie Exodus?

A significant and large number of people voted exclusively for Zombie Exodus (unless I’m getting my facts wrong and it was some other game - well, this happened with SOME game) and not at all for any other games. This skewed the competition absurdly, so that ZE was the grand slam winner.

I think most of those people were from another community, showing support for their colleague. All well and good, but all those votes had to be disqualified; there was WAY too much affluence, way too many people voting on ZE and not voting on anything else.

This has been a rule since the beginning of the competition. In fact, it used to be that no one was supposed to discuss the games in public during the period of the competition; so in addition to the authors needing to be quiet, they also had to do so in an environment of near-zero feedback of any kind. Then at midnight on November 16, rec.games.int-fiction would suddenly flood with review posts.

As for motives: I think the concern initially had to do with people unduly influencing the votes – that a few people with strong opinions might sway a lot of other voters, or that authors might talk shit about others’ games in an attempt to skew the outcome. And I guess I would still find it a little unseemly if I saw a comp author write a really nasty review of a work by one of their competitors.

However, I don’t know that we need a rule to prevent this, and I suspect in practice these days that is not what most of the reviews would actually look like. Back in the rec.games days, reviews tended to be much harsher on average than they are now. (I don’t exclude myself here, by the way: if you look back at my 2002 reviews, you’ll see a level of snark and dismissiveness that I like to think I would never indulge in now; and I think I was nonetheless considered a comparatively friendly reviewer by the standard of the time.) If you imagine a time when a lot more of the discourse was of the form “ugh I hated this waste of time!”, you can imagine why the community might not have wanted authors saying that stuff about one another while the competition was running.

I think my biggest takeaway from the Zombie Exodus thing is that everything turned out fine in the end. People talked with each other and worked out a solution that was fair to everyone. I think if there’s ever a big problem like that at IFComp it’ll be an inadvertent violation as opposed to deliberate sabotage, and I trust Jason to handle that kind of situation in a responsible and fair way.

Okay but for real though is this the scenario we’re worried about here? Because that seems very unlikely. Anyone who wants to drive-by vote like that has to go to the site, register an account, be aware that they have to downvote four other games for their one upvote to count, AND be smart enough to have it be a mix of threes and fours rather than a line of straight ones. And if all that happens the game in question gets one unearned 10. Is this really going to happen not just once but so many times that it actually changes the result of the comp? The only way that could happen would be with organization, and that would have to happen in private anyway. Which means the rule we’re talking about isn’t even really the issue. People could be voting like this right now and we’d never know. At a certain point we have to accept that systems are fallible and trust that people will vote responsibly.

This isn’t new. I know we were allowed to do it in 2013. (Well, either that or I destroyed the sanctity of that year’s competition by announcing my game on twitter.) But the thing is that’s such a limited and unspecific pitch and we’re only allowed to make it right at the start of the comp. “There are 53 text games over here” is not going to be enough entice anyone. And “I have a new game but I basically can’t talk about it” will only entice people who are already know that author. On the other hand, highlighting positive qualities of multiple different games in the comp is something that could actually help. If I can say a game is funny and post a quote to prove it, that’s a lot more effective than just pointing at a pile of games and saying “Trust me! It’s good! Can’t tell you how but hey.”

Like for example let’s say there was a hypothetical entry in this year’s competition – call it “SECRET AGENT CHICANERY” – that hypothetically happened to be the longest Twine game ever written. Hypothetically. If we were allowed to share this information publicly, we could actually go out to people and say “Hey, do you like Twine? Because you should see what they’re doing with it in IFComp this year.” We could spread that noteworthy fact to help raise the profile of the comp and signal the overall level of effort on display this year.

I’m just saying, were such a thing to be true, it would be a real wasted opportunity if that information stayed confined to a private forum.

I can definitely see the advantage of that, but couldn’t we accomplish this with a specific rule against arguing with reviewers? And we could still keep a private forum up for people to vent in if they wanted. As it stands though it feels like we’re using a sledgehammer to swat a fly.

Again, I realize this doesn’t address your main point, but I am writing up something about highlights of this comp for a Gamasutra blogpost, in the hope that it may pique interest beyond the readership of my own blog and Twitter feed. If there are noteworthy facts like this which someone feels should get out there, that someone should feel free to email or DM me in the next couple of days. (Edited to add: ideally with stats supporting the claim, if those are available, just so I can be as specific as possible about what is awesome here.)

I can see the reason for the rule; but I think it is probably not really needed.

If concern was with “purity” of voting, then the original rule (no comments at all) would be the one to go for. Why allow influential critics to influence the results? Let each of the elector solemnly consult only his/her own taste and judgment.

Think what we would lose!

In many ways it is the discussion that IfComp produces that is its most useful feature. Far from wishing to muzzle the influential critics, I’m delighted that the IfComp produces so much, and I’d love it if the authors could participate too. I think it would make for a richer experience.

Although of course one should take reasonable steps to make sure the results have some credibility, one cannot pretend that they are in any scientific sense valid – a few hundred self-selected voters who have played sometimes different selections of games applying their own private criteria and being honour bound to comply with various rules. I doubt that relaxing the current rule would make much difference – after all the author Hanon Ondricek mentions who wishes to galvanise his/her small clique of a dozen snapchatters could do so already without fear of detection, I think.

My only slight worry would be that there might be ugly scenes between authors and critics, or between authors. That would be a pity, but I think we just have to trust people. It would STILL be worth having an author’s forum I think so that people can privately vent if they want to – and what happens on the author’s forum should then stay on the author’s forum.

If the reason that the rule was created refers to a state of affairs that is no longer representative of the community in general, I think it’s well worth experimenting with lifting that rule next year.

In fact, since by now a lot of the votes are in, it would be even more interesting to lift the rule right now and see what effect that has on the ensuing votes, or in this forum.

I supported the muzzle rule when the comp started, but hearing the reasons against it and seeing how things have panned out turned my opinion around weeks ago. I’ve been trying to review games on the author forum, and while I don’t think all the discussion happening there is appropriate for public consumption, I’d definitely post reviews for my favorite games onto IFDB to try to get more people to play them.

The actual sticking point to me seems to be whether authors will start arguing with reviewers about their scores if the muzzle is removed. This really could happen, and it could discourage reviewers from writing anything, but I think a rule could be put into place to address this specific issue. “Don’t talk to a reviewer about their review unless they explicitly invite questions from authors.”

I’m heavily in favor of promoting the competition more, if for no other reason that I’ve been playing Infocom games since I was seven or eight years old, had always dreamed of being able to make them, and had no idea that the tools to do so or an audience for those games existed until spring of 2014. Keeping the biggest competition of the year hush-hush like this really hampers bringing in more interested people. Promotion and open development are so much a part of the indie game scene right now, it’s strange that at the very simplest level there’s this tradition of complete silence.

Well, it’s hardly that, it it? Just because the authors can’t discuss things, doesn’t mean everyone else can’t. PlanetIF has been buzzing with reviews on IFComp games.

Just keeping things in perspective. There’s hardly a blanket of silence all around. Possibly authors have this idea because in their corner there’s a lot more activity - that’s fair, that makes sense.

I don’t think BPH was exaggerating when he said the author forum has had more discussion than the rest of the internet combined. It makes PlanetIF look like a snail inching along. Part of the frustration is knowing that all that energy could be out in public, helping draw more people to the comp, but it’s being neutralized. It may already be too neutralized to matter this year even if the muzzle were lifted.

But people who are reading PlanetIF already know about the contest–and I’d never heard of PlanetIF until last year either.

But it’s not the author’s responsibility to make people aware of the comp. In fact, nothing prevents an author from saying “Hey guys, look at this! A comp with lots of IF! Come check this out!” in various places. And every player can do that and even discuss the actual games.

Lifting the rule would make this place buzz with activity, apparently mostly because of the authors, which are understandably way more psyched about the comp than people like me, who just enjoy the games whatever the outcome of the comp is. But that has very little, or nothing, to do with a perceived “blanket of silence”. People around here can still talk about the games, and anyone/everyone can reach out to outside of the community with news of the Comp.

I didn’t think there was any exageration. I believe that there’s tons more activity in the author’s board. What I meant was, just because that’s the place with all the buzz, that doesn’t mean everywhere else has a “blanket of silence”.

In fact, what we’ve been having is mostly the silence of people playing the games, and then sometimes leaving a review. If I’m enjoying a game, or a series of games, I certainly won’t even look at any discussion about it before I’m well underway, or finished with the game.

I mean, authors, there’s a timing, y’know? Let the players play. Believe me, I do know how nerve-wrecking the silence must be for you, but it’s part of the whole thing - people are playing the games in peace, in their own time (and there’s so many this year!). Sometimes they have things to say - and bam, review goes up. Sometimes they don’t, and that’s also how if goes. Usually the place explodes after the comp because most people have played the relevant games, and are free to discuss them, and can even consider the results in their discussion. That’s also when post-mortems arrive. That really is the most sensible time for authors and players alike to explode in discussion.

Having said all that, I still personally think that if the rule no longer makes sense it would be fair to try and lift it, see what happens.

EDIT - The only circumstance in which I think this sort of discussion would actually be useful for an author mid-comp would be if it prompted the author to update their game. Which some might say would be an unfair advantage for that particular author, as they happened to have a (some) player(s) note something specific in their game that they could change to make it better. While the judging period was going on.

Since, however, I was never on board with the whole update thing, I’m pretty much not bothered by that. But you, authors, should also think of that.

Apart from this one circumstance, though, I don’t see any specific feedback that can be so important to the authors they can’t wait until the comp is over to know about.

…I mean, isn’t it normal, in any competition, for the people competing to discuss things amongst themselves but keep it all separate from the judges? (then again, in which competition is it normal for an entry to be continuously updated right until the last day of the Comp…)

(Bleh. It looks like I’m advocating the rule stay on. I’m not - I’m just trying to look at both sides of the coin)

Even if direct canvassing is disallowed, there are other consequences of public discussion that are less easy to counteract. For example, it’s not too much of a stretch to suppose that games about which there is a lot of public discussion will receive more scrutiny from the voting public and hence more votes. Authors would thus be incentivized to tirelessly post on these boards about their games, interacting with all of the players and reviewers and keeping their game in the public eye for as long as possible. Do you really want to add this “meta-comp” PR component to the IFComp? I can see the advantage of the current system, where authors post their games on Oct 1st, and then sit back for a month and a half while the chips fall where they may.

It’s not silence out there exactly but this year is definitely quieter than previous years. As far as we can tell there are fewer reviews, fewer regular reviewers, less discussion overall, and less outside coverage. Which, you know, it happens. People have lives, and we’re not entitled to their activity. But we could be helping to generate more heat for the comp and we’re not allowed to, and that’s kind of frustrating.

I guess the question is if not us then who? Jason’s just one person, he can’t very well run a PR campaign while he’s doing all the administrative work. Is it on the reviewers and judges? Seems odd to put that expectation onto them, especially when they’re going into the competition blind and many of them won’t really formalize their opinions until later on. At the end of the day the authors are the ones launching the games and I think it’s appropriate for us to wear at least some of the responsibility for getting the word out.

Is it better to get more votes? The game with the highest number of votes last year came 28th, and the one the year before that came 33rd.

I don’t want that, which is why I supported the muzzle at first. I have no followers, I don’t even use Twitter, I am awful at self-promotion, I would be utterly crushed by any authors who are good at it. But I think that’s where the honor system comes into play. Voters and reviewers are trusted to act respectfully. Authors are not trusted, hence the muzzle. Even if the muzzle were lifted, I think it would still be important to discourage loud PR blitzes whose purpose is to drown out other games, but this could be done without the gag order we have now.

I dunno, maybe it would backfire, rigged votes would flood in, and jmac would have a mess on his hands. It’s possible. I can’t predict the future. I’m also not as bothered by the muzzle as other authors, since I am bad at PR, as I mentioned. But I can see what’s being bottled on the author forum. I understand the frustration.

How many variations of “IFComp 2015 is happening!” do you think I can compose into tweets? How many should I?

Because that’s literally the only thing we’re allowed to say. I can’t say “Go play _____, it does _____ very _____.” I can’t say “So in my game I was trying to _______”. Hell, even if we tweet generically about the comp, we run the risk of someone @-replying us to ask about our game, something we can’t even respond to. What, pray tell, would be the purpose of this colourless, contentless parade?

Everyone involved. I’m sure Jason did some outreaching, within the available time and means (I know he tweets, and that’s something right there). The players talk about the games and the comp. The authors do, too. But putting this pressure exclusively on the authors is, I think, unfair; it’s too much of a burden.

Similarly, at the end of the day, the authors are the ones launching the games into the comp, and it would be appropriate for everyone involved in the comp - and in this case, judges/players/reviewers are one big indistinct mass, which plays hell with a lot of stuff but for this particular point is quite convenient as they all want to see the comp more widely known - to get the word out.

Once your game is submitted into the comp, you don’t really get to single it out any more. Your participation is over, and I get that that’s hard. It’s up to players to go “Hey, guys, this is AWESOME, take a look at this!”. The authors can’t do this, almost by definition. Conflict of interest and partiality. Plus - not your responsibility. Your responsibility was fulfilled - you made an awesome game for the rest of us to enjoy, and wasn’t that hard enough work?

If the comp isn’t being spread widely enough, that may be an issue worth looking at, but I doubt the “author muzzle” is the culprit.

Well, you can. You say say “Sorry, not allowed to speak about my game, but do check the comp out! It’s awesome this year!”.

EDIT - It doesn’t help that there’s a looooong time between Oct 1 and Nov 15.

EDIT 2 - Everything that we are talking about is traditionally post-comp stuff, and it’s worked wonders in that capacity before.

EDIT 3 - Please clarify something for me. Sequitur’s “I was trying to ______ in my game” is something I totally get that should be disallowed under this muzzle rule, but “Check out game _____, it does ___ and ___”, where the game is NOT Sequitur’s… would that be disallowed? Because if so, the muzzle is too tight, possibly. I don’t see why authors can’t comment on the works of other authors. That happens in every comp - if the competitants get to see what the others are doing, they’ll comment amongst themselves. It’s natural, and shouldn’t be stopped. What they CAN’T do is comment that with the judges.

…which, come to think of it, is what the rule is trying to avoid. Right. Gotcha, rule. You know what you’re doing.