So it's time for...

Hi

Was a huge fan of adventures back then and have revisited some games many times.
(Huge Magnetic Scrolls fan)

I also love to write.
It so happens that I now have the time needed for doing a project like this. My wish is to recreate and further develope something I made in GAC on cbm64 way back then. (Outta memory, game itself is lost)

As a non-english speaker (natively) I am a bit in doubt over what program to choose.
I was looking into Inform7 last night and got this feeling that me not being “expert at english talker” could be an obstacle. But, although I have some programming experience, I might be put of by the technical aspect of Tad. (I tried TAD many years ago but I had to put the project aside, lack of time)

What would people in general suggests to a non-english person?

I see the point in doing Inform7, since it will also train my language skills.
On the other hand, I was quite frustrated when trying to achieve some “simple” stuff last night and maybe the logic that occurs in programming could be better.

M:)rten

Inform 6 is an option to consider, then, as it’s closer to that “logic that occurs on programming” than its latest incarnation. I7 is also a programming language, but its disguise of “something you’re casually writting” make orthodox programmers feel uneasy. You can take a look at I6 at:

inform-fiction.org/inform6.html

I have been hoping, ever since I7 came out, for a person to emerge whose English was learned entirely from I7. (Well, ideally enough people to form a small but viable language community. But we’re getting into SF territory here.)

I7 aims at being natural English, but is much simpler and more rules-bound. Plenty of things that are well-formed statements in Inform are not grammatically correct English, and vice versa. (You may actually have one small advantage over a fluent English speaker: the English speaker will often know four or five grammatically-correct ways to express a particular idea, and forget which particular one I7 understands.) And I7 is, not very deep beneath the surface, still a technical programming language. You still have to think like a programmer to use it.

When you tried TADS, was it TADS 2 or TADS 3? T3 is pretty intimidating, but I picked up TADS 2 more or less easily as a non-programmer.

I think it must have been TADS 2. I looked into IF twice the last ten years and I think TADS was tested when I studied multimedia in Melbourne. Tads 3 wasn’t around then.

I know I’ve seen Inform7 before, so I probably tested that when I intended to do an interactive example for my students at the University of Stavanger, where I worked for some years.
Unfortunately, time was always an issue and I had to drop the idea of the example. Still makes me a bit sad, IF is so good when it comes to this.

I’m looking into Inform7 now and I am still struggling with (I guess) a pretty basic thing, so I’m probably going to bother you guys with the problem. (Trying to search atm)

M:)rten

Judging by the English of your posts, you’re quite as good at English as I (a Swede) am, and I’ve never found the problem to be my faulty grasp of idiomatic English. Whatever difficulties there is with learning I7, I doubt that being a non-native speaker (or reader/writer) of English is a very crucial one.

Thank you for the compliment :blush:
I’m Norwegian btw, so we’re basically neighbours. (If we take the whole universe into account, we’re basically sitting next to each other… :laughing: )

M:)rten

Sincerely, M:)rten. I wouldn’t have ever written a game if not for I7 (I can hear the curses running towards Nelson and the rest… c’mon it’s not THEIR fault!).
I tried it in I6.
I tried with C64GAC, an aeon ago.
I tried with C64 basic.

At a certain point, I found out that a] I was too lazy to finish a job (cases with the C64 machine); or b] I got to the point where the programming language was too hard for me.

I7 helped a lot. It’s just a matter of saying “Here is a room; this is the description; this is what you can do inside it” quite literally and it all flows. Every here and there you have to write a rule and that is really a little bit of nothing compared to what you must learn when programming in other languages.
In the end, it’s just the same matter of learning a language. But I7 proved itself easier than all the rest.

Give it a try. I’m expecting something from you soon :slight_smile:

Well, I’m relieved you didn’t take it rather as an insult, kjære nabo :slight_smile:

I also think that you will I6 less frustrating, as it’s a lot more logical and programmer-friendly. This is not a native/non-native issue, really. I find I6 a lot less frustrating and I’m a native speaker.

I actually wouldn’t be surprised if it’s actually helpful to writing in Inform to be not perfectly fluent in English. :slight_smile: (To explain, I find that many of my Inform-related problems arise when I try to use a phrase that is perfectly synonymous in actual English to an Inform phrase, but is not in fact an Inform phrase itself. I suspect that brains store phrases as [closer to] their meaning, and don’t necessarily cast them into the same words every time. So knowing fewer synonyms could be helpful to having fewer Inform issues!)

Hehe. Maybe…

I’ve been fooling around with Inform7 for 2 days now.
The “Not Programming language” approach of I7 is kinda frustrating, but I think I’ll choose to see that as a challenge.
Obviously, the simple tasks in I7 are very easy to do.

I have, for now, chosen I7. I need to brush up my english anyway, and altough I7 is not correct english, I still have to write the words correct. And so on.

I would very much like to write a game in Norwegian, but I think that would be a game without audience. And I’m not the one to translate it either. (Not saying my future English game(s) will have an audience either, but at least the possibility is there :laughing: )

THanks for the advices.

M:)rten