Would you mind posting new recommendations for some of the same titles I requested before, so I can compare the old and new suggestions?
Those recommendations for Adventure are great. A bunch of big puzzly games known for trial and error.
Is genre considered in the 8-ball? Also, should we consider parser vs. clicking to be a similarity/difference between games?
What happens if you put a low-rated game into it, like ‘The absolute worst IF game in history’?
Adventure, Curses, Kerkerkruip and Never Gives Up Her Dead look like good recommendations. Cryptozookeeper is a bit funky; that game is a funny, profane pokemon pit-fighting alien genetics game with a bunch of NPCs, so Napier’s Cache (genteel Scottish historical game), Neurocracy (big fake version of wikipedia about future virus) and Trading Punches (I think a sci fi game about drinking and arguing) feel like weird recommendations. I wonder if it’s due to lower amount of ratings, or maybe the fact that there just aren’t many games like it? King of Shreds and Patches, Guilty Bastards, and Anchorhead seem like good matches for it (and probably Corruption).
3 Likes
@mathbrush: Regarding Cryptozookeeper, I’m glad to hear that you (as probably the world’s foremost expert on the subject of IF recommendations) think at least some of the recommendations are worthwhile. Your feedback about what looks wrong is extremely helpful, so thank you. I’ll see what I can do about tuning it better there.
For The Absolute Worst IF Game in History, the current output is effectively: “Reply hazy. Try again.” I’ll work on it.
@bg: The Magic 8-Ball says: “Better not tell you now.” There are a lot of games that haven’t been mentioned yet, though, so if you’d like to suggest some new ones, please do!
1 Like
I think this is okay, there’s not much reason to find games that are similar to bad games. I just wanted to see what it would output. Thanks for sharing!
1 Like
Ok. How about
Augmented Fourth
Bear Creek, Part 1
The Bamboo Forest
Dial C for Cupcakes
2 Likes
Don’t forget that the theoretical question being asked is not so much “Is this game any good?” as it is “If I liked this game, what other games might I like?” What would your expert answer be to that question in this case?
2 Likes
I’d expect games like toiletword, mcbutts, pick up the phone booth and die, and maybe games made for that purposely bad if jam
1 Like
Augmented Fourth
+------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
| Augmented Fourth | Lost Pig |
| Augmented Fourth | Savoir-Faire |
| Augmented Fourth | The Kazooist |
| Augmented Fourth | Treasures of a Slaver's Kingdom |
| Augmented Fourth | Adventurer's Consumer Guide |
| Augmented Fourth | Scroll Thief |
| Augmented Fourth | Hunter, in Darkness |
| Augmented Fourth | Counterfeit Monkey |
| Augmented Fourth | Risorgimento Represso |
| Augmented Fourth | Illuminismo Iniziato |
+------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
Bear Creek, Part 1
"Reply Hazy. Ask again later."
The Bamboo Forest
+-------------------+------------------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+-------------------+------------------------------------------------------+
| The Bamboo Forest | Dead Mall Mystery |
| The Bamboo Forest | Escape the Egyptian Tomb |
| The Bamboo Forest | Haunted Cabin |
| The Bamboo Forest | Room of Escape |
| The Bamboo Forest | Starship Escape |
| The Bamboo Forest | The Red Soldier |
| The Bamboo Forest | The Wizard's Tower |
| The Bamboo Forest | Wake Up |
| The Bamboo Forest | Welcome to the Jungle |
| The Bamboo Forest | Reflections |
+-------------------+------------------------------------------------------+
Dial C for Cupcakes
+---------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+---------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Dial C for Cupcakes | Gourmet |
| Dial C for Cupcakes | Hunger Daemon |
| Dial C for Cupcakes | Ryan Veeder's Authentic Fly Fishing |
| Dial C for Cupcakes | Cragne Manor |
| Dial C for Cupcakes | The Witch's Apprentice |
| Dial C for Cupcakes | Halloween |
| Dial C for Cupcakes | The Hand That Rocks The Pumpkin |
| Dial C for Cupcakes | Escape From Santaland |
| Dial C for Cupcakes | Santa's Sleigh Ride |
| Dial C for Cupcakes | Crocodracula: The Beginning |
+---------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
2 Likes
Something more like this?
The Absolute Worst IF Game in History
+---------------------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+---------------------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+
| The Absolute Worst IF Game in History | Zegrothenus |
| The Absolute Worst IF Game in History | The Lift |
| The Absolute Worst IF Game in History | The Fat Lardo and the Rubber Ducky |
| The Absolute Worst IF Game in History | Toiletworld |
| The Absolute Worst IF Game in History | FutureGame |
| The Absolute Worst IF Game in History | Detective |
| The Absolute Worst IF Game in History | Nothing But Mazes |
| The Absolute Worst IF Game in History | Runes |
| The Absolute Worst IF Game in History | Tex Bonaventure and the Temple of the Water of Life |
| The Absolute Worst IF Game in History | Treasures of a Slaver's Kingdom |
| The Absolute Worst IF Game in History | Barsoom Adventure #1: The Lost City |
| The Absolute Worst IF Game in History | Framed |
+---------------------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+
3 Likes
Well, seeing ‘Zegrothenus’ at the top made me think, ‘yes, yes that’s exactly it’.
The Lift, Fat Lardo, Toiletworld, FutureGame, and Detective are all good fits as they are intentionally bad or not well regarded. I haven’t played Runes or Framed or Barsoom, but a glance at the first two show they’re lower-rated with mazes (which The Absolute Worst game has). Nothing But Mazes is a higher quality game with a similar theme (I think, haven’t played it).
Tex Bonaventure and Treasures of a Slaver’s Kingdom are both pretty good games that don’t have strong corollaries to The Absolute Worst Game in IF.
So, I’d say 5 or 6 perfect fits, 2 or 3 ‘I could see it’, and a couple ‘nah, this doesn’t make sense’. Which is about what I’d want or expect out of an algorithm like this.
3 Likes
I think part of what’s going on is that a lot of people really don’t like Treasures due to the random combat.
A goal of this model is that any one person will find at least a few good choices, depending on perspective.
2 Likes
Wow, looking back, I’m surprised at how many games have been covered. I’m also encouraged to see that the histogram at the top is improving. (Be sure to update your vote, if necessary.)
Due to some recent changes, the Magic 8-Ball is now Mark IIb. I really do think it’s getting better. Here is a walk through a chain of 10 recommendations – as before, please speak up if any of these seem really wrong. (… or if any of them seem really right! That feedback is very helpful in tuning the model.)
Also, send in your own requests! I’ve only played a tiny fraction of the games on IFDB, so it’s hard for me to tell how well it’s working in the general case.
Deadline
+-----------+----------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+-----------+----------------------+
| Deadline | Suspect |
| Deadline | Dangerous Curves |
| Deadline | Pytho's Mask |
| Deadline | The Witness |
| Deadline | Worlds Apart |
| Deadline | Spellbreaker |
| Deadline | Sherlock Indomitable |
| Deadline | Make It Good |
| Deadline | Zork III |
| Deadline | Suspended |
| Deadline | Journey |
| Deadline | Curses |
+-----------+----------------------+
Sherlock Indomitable
+----------------------+--------------------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+----------------------+--------------------------------------------------------+
| Sherlock Indomitable | Toby's Nose |
| Sherlock Indomitable | The Ebb and Flow of the Tide |
| Sherlock Indomitable | Detectiveland |
| Sherlock Indomitable | Amanda |
| Sherlock Indomitable | Erstwhile |
| Sherlock Indomitable | The Myothian Falcon |
| Sherlock Indomitable | He Knows That You Know and Now There's No Stopping Him |
| Sherlock Indomitable | The Cask of Amontillado |
| Sherlock Indomitable | Insight |
| Sherlock Indomitable | Color the Truth |
| Sherlock Indomitable | Borrowed Time |
| Sherlock Indomitable | Grimnoir |
+----------------------+--------------------------------------------------------+
Color the Truth
+-----------------+------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+-----------------+------------------------------------------+
| Color the Truth | Death off the Cuff |
| Color the Truth | Dangerous Curves |
| Color the Truth | Grooverland |
| Color the Truth | Sequitur |
| Color the Truth | Sherlock Indomitable |
| Color the Truth | Suspect |
| Color the Truth | The Witness |
| Color the Truth | The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery |
| Color the Truth | The Black Lily |
| Color the Truth | Spider and Web |
| Color the Truth | Worlds Apart |
| Color the Truth | Moon-Shaped |
+-----------------+------------------------------------------+
The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery
+------------------------------------------+------------------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+------------------------------------------+------------------------------------------------------+
| The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery | Dangerous Curves |
| The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery | Birmingham IV |
| The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery | The Famous Five: Five on a Treasure Island |
| The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery | The Beast of Torrack Moor - 30th Anniversary Edition |
| The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery | Corruption |
| The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery | Sequitur |
| The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery | Color the Truth |
| The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery | Death on the Stormrider |
| The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery | The Witness |
| The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery | Guilty Bastards |
| The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery | Suspect |
| The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery | Death off the Cuff |
+------------------------------------------+------------------------------------------------------+
Death on the Stormrider
+-------------------------+------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+-------------------------+------------------------------------------+
| Death on the Stormrider | Coloratura |
| Death on the Stormrider | Zeppelin Adventure |
| Death on the Stormrider | Piracy 2.0 |
| Death on the Stormrider | Studio |
| Death on the Stormrider | Counterfeit Monkey |
| Death on the Stormrider | Six |
| Death on the Stormrider | Beyond |
| Death on the Stormrider | Happyland |
| Death on the Stormrider | Sequitur |
| Death on the Stormrider | The Empty Chamber: A Celia Swift Mystery |
| Death on the Stormrider | Deadline |
| Death on the Stormrider | Bronze |
+-------------------------+------------------------------------------+
Zeppelin Adventure
+--------------------+-----------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+--------------------+-----------------------------+
| Zeppelin Adventure | Detectiveland |
| Zeppelin Adventure | Pirateship |
| Zeppelin Adventure | Draculaland |
| Zeppelin Adventure | The Party Line |
| Zeppelin Adventure | Secret of the Starry Depths |
| Zeppelin Adventure | Death on the Stormrider |
| Zeppelin Adventure | 80 DAYS |
| Zeppelin Adventure | Portcullis |
| Zeppelin Adventure | Aunts and Butlers |
| Zeppelin Adventure | The Xylophoniad |
| Zeppelin Adventure | The Legend Lives! |
| Zeppelin Adventure | Shade |
+--------------------+-----------------------------+
80 DAYS
+-----------+-----------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+-----------+-----------------------------------------+
| 80 DAYS | Fallen London |
| 80 DAYS | Walker & Silhouette |
| 80 DAYS | The Forever Labyrinth |
| 80 DAYS | Overboard! |
| 80 DAYS | S.O.V. : An Interactive Fiction Slasher |
| 80 DAYS | howling dogs |
| 80 DAYS | Slouching Towards Bedlam |
| 80 DAYS | Harmonia |
| 80 DAYS | Bus Station, Unbound |
| 80 DAYS | Frankenstein |
| 80 DAYS | The Train To Abaddon |
| 80 DAYS | Zeppelin Adventure |
+-----------+-----------------------------------------+
Harmonia
+-----------+------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+-----------+------------------------------+
| Harmonia | Christminster |
| Harmonia | howling dogs |
| Harmonia | Inside the Facility |
| Harmonia | Stone Harbor |
| Harmonia | Eat Me |
| Harmonia | Professor of Magical Studies |
| Harmonia | Solarium |
| Harmonia | 80 DAYS |
| Harmonia | Walker & Silhouette |
| Harmonia | Counterfeit Monkey |
| Harmonia | Slouching Towards Bedlam |
| Harmonia | Chlorophyll |
+-----------+------------------------------+
howling dogs
+--------------+----------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+--------------+----------------------------------+
| howling dogs | You are Standing at a Crossroads |
| howling dogs | HOW TO SPEAK ATLANTEAN |
| howling dogs | Harmonia |
| howling dogs | A Paradox Between Worlds |
| howling dogs | 80 DAYS |
| howling dogs | Eat Me |
| howling dogs | HUNTING UNICORN |
| howling dogs | Mirror and Queen |
| howling dogs | Walker & Silhouette |
| howling dogs | Universal Hologram |
| howling dogs | The Forgotten Tavern |
| howling dogs | Cygnet Committee |
+--------------+----------------------------------+
HOW TO SPEAK ATLANTEAN
+------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| HOW TO SPEAK ATLANTEAN | howling dogs |
| HOW TO SPEAK ATLANTEAN | HUNTING UNICORN |
| HOW TO SPEAK ATLANTEAN | Survival Horror |
| HOW TO SPEAK ATLANTEAN | The Returning of the Quantum Cat |
| HOW TO SPEAK ATLANTEAN | Progenitor's Folly: Killing Orders |
| HOW TO SPEAK ATLANTEAN | A Tale of the Cave |
| HOW TO SPEAK ATLANTEAN | The Axolotl Project |
| HOW TO SPEAK ATLANTEAN | The Second Floor |
| HOW TO SPEAK ATLANTEAN | Lux |
| HOW TO SPEAK ATLANTEAN | Harrison Squared Dies Early |
| HOW TO SPEAK ATLANTEAN | CYBERQUEEN |
| HOW TO SPEAK ATLANTEAN | ALL I WANT IS FOR ALL OF MY FRIENDS TO BECOME INSANELY POWERFUL |
+------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
The Axolotl Project
+---------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+---------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| The Axolotl Project | Plasmorphosis |
| The Axolotl Project | Inventory |
| The Axolotl Project | Lux |
| The Axolotl Project | Seedship |
| The Axolotl Project | Changes |
| The Axolotl Project | Fall of the Achilles |
| The Axolotl Project | Lost in time |
| The Axolotl Project | Hallowmoor |
| The Axolotl Project | Trigaea |
| The Axolotl Project | Andromeda Apocalypse — Extended Edition |
| The Axolotl Project | Chuk and the Arena |
| The Axolotl Project | Traveler |
+---------------------+-------------------------------------------+
3 Likes
Would now be a good time to ask again?
Also:
- Monkey and Bear
- Harbinger
- Dual Transform
1 Like
Harmonia has some odd ones in my opinion; Christminster makes sense to me (from what I know of it, anyway; haven’t played), as does Slouching, but howling dogs, Eat Me, Counterfeit Monkey, and Chlorophyll seem kind of random.
I haven’t played most of the ones on howling dogs’ list, but of those I’m familiar with, most don’t seem particularly fitting…
I’ll be self-indulgent and request one of my games, Structural Integrity. 
1 Like
Thank you for the feedback and the request! I will look into those “oddball” answers. For your request, the Magic 8-Ball says…
Structural Integrity
+----------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+----------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
| Structural Integrity | A Collegial Conversation |
| Structural Integrity | (not so) strangers in the night |
| Structural Integrity | Escape From Summerland |
| Structural Integrity | Don't Rock The Boat |
| Structural Integrity | Ice gift hunt |
| Structural Integrity | Venus Meets Venus |
| Structural Integrity | Sleep |
| Structural Integrity | Blood and Company |
| Structural Integrity | can you say my name again |
| Structural Integrity | I'll Drive |
| Structural Integrity | Draw Everything You See That's Mine and Yours |
| Structural Integrity | Cover Me In Leaves |
+----------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
2 Likes
Interesting, this is giving multiple other games by me, whereas for howling dogs for instance, it didn’t give any other Porpentine games (edit: that I’d heard of; apparently it did give one!). (I haven’t played most of the ones that I didn’t write, so can’t speak to their fittingness! But Draw Everything You See is one I have played and that makes sense.)
For that list (including the repeat), the only one with a proper answer at the moment is…
Dual Transform
+----------------+----------------------------+
| FROM_GAME | TO_GAME |
+----------------+----------------------------+
| Dual Transform | The Space Under the Window |
| Dual Transform | A Change in the Weather |
| Dual Transform | Shade |
| Dual Transform | Lid Astray |
| Dual Transform | PARANOIA |
| Dual Transform | Delusions |
| Dual Transform | Changes |
| Dual Transform | My Evil Twin |
| Dual Transform | The Moonlit Tower |
| Dual Transform | Worlds Apart |
+----------------+----------------------------+
Are you just choosing games with the random list page? If you can give me an idea of a few games that you would expect to be paired with any of the ones without answers, that might help.
No, I’m not choosing games with the random list page. I suggested some of these because I’m curious about what kinds of games would get paired with them.
Bear Creek:
I remember it being a pretty chill, short, realistic slice-of-life game with a child protagonist exploring the outdoors and a trailer park. I want to say that maybe it was supposed to be a childhood experience being recalled by a now-older narrator, but I’m not sure about that. There was a little bit of heavy content, briefly mentioned. Two possible matches that come to mind are Sandcastle Master and The Fire Tower. Less realistic but also pretty chill, short, let’s explore-the-outdoors games might be The Bamboo Forest and The Blue Lettuce.
Monkey and Bear I remember as being short, based on a song, and about a bear who is treated badly by another character and escapes to become a constellation. It was kind of sad.
I’m unsure what would pair with that, but I’ll think about it. Maybe another Shufflecomp game based on a song, with a sense of sadness, like Light My Way Home?
Harbinger was about a bird in a fantasy setting. Maybe How to Be a Blackbird, though that’s not really a fantasy setting. For some reason Future Threads comes to mind. It’s not about a bird, but I remember it being a fairly short fantasy game about trying to avert disaster.
Maybe other people will have some more suggestions?
2 Likes
Inside the Facility is also weird, IMO—as a parser puzzler with minimal story, it’s kind of on the other end of the “interactivity vs. fiction” spectrum from Harmonia. Walker & Silhouette I guess is going off the “feminism” tag, but they don’t have much else in common.
Christminster, Solarium, and Stone Harbor strike me as very good recommendations, though, and Professor of Magical Studies and 80 Days as decent ones.
Other games I’ve played:
Color the Truth: Death off the Cuff, Suspect, and The Witness seem like good recs. Grooverland is less similar but still makes sense since it’s the same author. The Black Lily, Spider and Web, and Worlds Apart seem odd.
Death on the Stormrider: I haven’t played Deadline, but from what I know about it, it’s a solid choice. Coloratura, Counterfeit Monkey, Six, Beyond, and Bronze don’t make much sense to me.
howling dogs: None of the games I know here (Harmonia, A Paradox Between Worlds, Eat Me, Walker & Silhouette, Cygnet Committee) seem particularly similar.
The Axolotl Project: Lux, Chuk and the Arena, Andromeda Apocalypse, and Changes all seem like good choices. Seedship doesn’t have that much in common beyond being choice-based sci-fi in a setting with space travel, but it’s not that out-there.
Structural Integrity: Venus Meets Venus is a great choice, (not so) strangers in the night is okay, Escape From Summerland is not similar at all.
I haven’t examined this too deeply, but as far as I can tell a lot of the weird choices seem to come from two games sharing a single tag with very few uses, like “feminism” or “multiple POV”—I wonder if there’s a way for the algorithm to correct for that, like deprioritizing tags with fewer than 10 uses, or something like that?
4 Likes